471: Jeff Kellogg Enters the Other Side of the Wine Business

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_01]: This episode is dedicated to the memory of Ned Benedict, who recently passed away.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Ned was interviewed in episode 21 of this program and he was a friend to many in the

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_01]: wine business.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll drink to that where we get behind the scenes of the beverage business.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Levi Dalton, I'm Erin Scala and here's our show today.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Jeff Kellogg returns to the show.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_01]: He is now a distributor at Kellogg Selection in North Carolina.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, sir.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_00]: How are you?

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing great.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me, Levi.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Great to be back and also you probably don't hear this enough.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to compliment you on what you do for this podcast because honestly as somebody

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: who loves wine and wants to learn more about producers and regions, just the people you

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_00]: have on and getting a collection of their stories and their family history is amazing

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and will be for a long time.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting because you used to be super sarcastic but now you're kind of

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: a kiss up.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that the transformation that I've seen?

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Still very sarcastic so it's a great combination of both, kind of optimistic and nice with

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: this sarcastic edge which goes over extremely well in North Carolina.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember that you worked in North Carolina before, you opened a few restaurants there,

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: right?

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I did, I worked for a Russian group.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I was in North Carolina for about seven years, opened five concepts for a Russian

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: group where I was there before I went to the Green Bar in Russia, Jeanne and spent

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: time in California and of course New York as well.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: For me honestly it was kind of like going home even though I grew up in Ohio it

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_00]: very much felt like going back home and that was part of the attraction to go

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: there.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: That's where you met your wife too in North Carolina, right?

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly right.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So now you're in distribution in the market, you used to be a buyer but several years later

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and what's that like for you?

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly it was a huge change.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't necessarily prepared myself for a life of selling wine or distribution.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd always assumed, I've always loved working in restaurants honestly and I thought I would

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of be in them for life.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I still think that there's a really good chance that I'll be involved in

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurants again but going back you know one of the reasons I went back

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: in Stephanie as well is because all of these wines that we fell in love with and loved

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: working with and mostly loved to drink that were available in San Francisco, New

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: York weren't in North Carolina.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And so being able to go back and introduce those wines make North Carolina

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: hopefully a little bit better place to be a consumer, be a wine buyer is one of

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: the major reasons we did it.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So how has Charlotte changed in the time since you've been away?

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: It's changed a lot.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean all of North Carolina has but I think Charlotte in general.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So again another reason that we went back to North Carolina is because we feel like

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: it's about to blow up.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully it's kind of hitting it at the period like maybe Charleston was 10 years

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_00]: ago when there's a lot of things going on, a lot of chefs moving there, a lot of

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurants and retail shops that are trying to do some really cool exciting

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: stuff wanting more access to wines and we're there to give it to them.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So in terms of Charlotte how it's changed it's still a cab town as it

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: always has been it's a big banking hub so it probably will be for a while.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But the number of wine programs that are doing some really cool exciting stuff

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: is grown exponentially.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: In Charlotte specifically there's this great group of I would say buyers

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that are younger than me 25 to 30 that are restaurant managers and

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00]: doing buying for the restaurants that are really trying to do cool stuff

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: within the parameters of what their restaurant owners let them do in

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Charlotte but specifically there's a few retailers that are really doing

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_00]: exciting stuff.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You never know where the hub of something cool in wine is going to be.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: In North Carolina right now it's Durham and it probably has been for a number

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_00]: of years and I don't know if that's what you would have guessed knowing

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: North Carolina that like Durham 30 minutes outside of Raleigh is going

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: to be the hub for the most exciting stuff but there's some people doing

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_00]: some really cool stuff out there.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously in Raleigh and Chapel Hill and Asheville as well there's some

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: really cool stuff going on also.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: There's kind of like a beacon in each little kind of small town so you

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: wouldn't expect it but there's like in Wilmington there's a couple guys

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: doing really cool stuff in the Outer Banks like in Kitty Hawk

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a store doing great stuff.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: There's really great retail in Winston.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a really great retail in Greensboro so they're kind of all over

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: the place.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: There's just kind of one in each area that probably gets like the entire

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: like current allocation for the area because they buy all the really

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: cool wines and everybody else is kind of doing standard stuff.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So although it's kind of centered in those three areas the Research

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Triangle Charlotte and Asheville there's also like these really cool guys

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that you would never find unless you were seeking them out.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: What are the forces behind that?

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly a lot of it has to do with people that move from other markets.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes it's New York like Michael Mallor is a great wine buyer

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: in Durham and he had worked at Gramercy Tavern years ago.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Cappy Pete buys the wines for Ashley Christensen restaurants

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: which are some great restaurants in Raleigh and she had come from

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Charleston.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Paulita Pano is at Farrington House which is an iconic wine program

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: in North Carolina and she had worked at 11 Madison Park.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So people moving either to North Carolina for the first time

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: or moving back from working in other markets makes a huge

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: difference as well because then it becomes this little epicenter of interest.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So you hang out with other wine buyers and show them these wines

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and then they email me asking if they can get it.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_00]: That sort of thing.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So you're kind of describing yourself though in that.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's kind of you as well right?

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you also moving from New York to.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah having had left Charlotte to go to other markets and part of the

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: problem is right now you kind of have to do that.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: There's not enough mentorship that you can just stay in Charlotte.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You know that's a lot of what we want to do in North Carolina.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You know this is kind of grandiose expectations but if you can

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: do like what Bobby Saki did in Boulder and kind of make it

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: a better place to be a somebody a better place to be a wine drinker.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: When I was here for La Palais last year I was actually training for a marathon

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and I knew Bobby was here of course Bobby is a great runner.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I kind of use it as a man I'd love to be able to pick Bobby's

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_00]: brain for an hour about you know when he left Napa to go move to

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Boulder and to kind of start this restaurant in a smaller area

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: that wasn't as wine savvy.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly I had a big fear about losing relevance too.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was great to hear that he had a similar concern when

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: he went there as he puts it the average wine buyer sticks around

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: for two years right.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're out of the game for two years then by the time you come

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: back it's completely new people have no idea who you are.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And so you're kind of rebuilding your relevance in your reputation

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_00]: in a lot of ways.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So I got him to do an 18 mile run because that's the amount

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: of miles I had to do.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So literally just pounded him with questions about like so

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: you know what did you do about maintaining relevance and he

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: had some great very humble stories about what he did like.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So what do you do when you were trying to introduce these wines

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and people are just like that's a little too weird for me.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And he had some great stories about you know the pushback but

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: still just every day keep it doesn't matter if the guest

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: last night didn't like it and you had to drink it with

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: family meal like you know it's a great wine if you think

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: the guest is going to like it like still serve it still be

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: proud of it don't give up.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So I took a lot out of that two and a half hour run.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I was supposed to run like an 830 pace or something and

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_00]: because Bobby is a maniac.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I ended up going like an eight minute pace and I just wiped

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: me out.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So lesson learned if you're going to run with Bobby make him

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: go your pace don't try to keep up with him.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Well there are specific stories that he told you that

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_01]: you thought were really relevant to you.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So the most humbling story that he told me was the

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: original site that they had for Frosca fell through.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think maybe an investor fell through at the same time.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And so he had to take a job that he hated.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And so people would come in and they would see him and

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: recognize him from when he was working at the laundry and

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: they didn't know that he was working on a restaurant

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_00]: because it was this is two years later.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So they didn't realize that what he was doing long term

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: was obviously what's turned into this amazing restaurant.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So they would just look at him like man what happened

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: to you.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You're the wine director at the French Laundry.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And now you're working doing this job.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And so to be able to kind of maintain your pride when

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: people are looking at you like that is difficult.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know there's definitely there's definitely

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: days where like I'm so sad we're meeting with a wine buyer

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: or something and and they completely blow me off

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: or thing.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just like man if I was on the floor tonight

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: at my Alino I'd be probably open in 78 to Coase or some

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_00]: container now.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And it said I'm getting blown off by this guy who's

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: never even heard of container now.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that was super helpful to me and kind of

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: maintaining your humility and like who cares at the end

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: of the day.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You know you believe in what you're doing.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You know you're doing the right thing and stick with it.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Because you'd done wine production before.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: In other words you'd done a few harvests and some

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: different places and then you'd been a buyer.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But you'd never really been on distribution sale side.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: No not at all.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I honestly had never really been something that

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I was interested in.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And it turns out with good reason I'm actually

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: really bad at it in a lot of ways.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I get into I stay in wine buyer mode

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: where I feel like my opinion matters about

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_00]: vintages or producers and stuff that aren't mine.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So especially when I first started like just these

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_00]: working mistakes like this great wine shop in Raleigh

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: one of the first times I went up there I was

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: showing them some red wines.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like I'm going to be the sales guy whose

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: red wines are always at the perfect temperature.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to nail this they're going to be all by

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_00]: how like the whites aren't all the same temperature

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: because like one should be just a little bit warmer

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: than the other and you know this red should be

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: 58 and this one should be 62.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So I've got like you know ice packs and stuff

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: on the wines and it's like a three hour drive

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: to get there.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I have this nailed right.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So I get there it's my first tasting with them.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: The wine shops great great selection so I really

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: want to get in with these guys and you know

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_00]: also I needed some cash flow.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Stephanie just invested our life savings into this

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: company so it'd be nice to have some people

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: buy some wine also.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So pour some whites and the whites are

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: a little bit too cold good temperature though

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_00]: but you know could be better than nail it.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the reds are just way too cold.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm showing like California Pinot Noir

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's like 55 degrees or something they're

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: lit they had their hands cusp on the glasses

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to warm it up and stuff and I'm like yeah

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you know I just wanted to make sure it wasn't

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: too warm these wines show really great to have

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_00]: a little chill to them just like and they're

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_00]: like no no it's cool like it's easier to

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: warm it up than cool it down like being

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_00]: just super nice to me but they have to be

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_00]: thinking like well this guy did this for a

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_00]: living huh he used to like sell wines at a

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurant and serve them at a temperature

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_00]: like I'm terrible at this is unbelievable

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: like how unprofessional I'm like so I

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_00]: hadn't put much thought towards becoming

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: a distributor but I mean a couple things

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: that made me do it one we wanted to go

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_00]: back to North Carolina we weren't

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: necessarily in a hurry when we decided

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_00]: it was time to leave California our first

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_00]: instinct was actually to come back to

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: New York but we had talked about doing

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: this and this was kind of the easiest

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: segue into North Carolina and then

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_00]: also to be honest with you because this

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_00]: is how we make a living it had to be

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: something that was profitable so we

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_00]: thought that the opportunity to go to

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_00]: North Carolina was right now we started

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: talking to our friends that are

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: producers in California and asking them

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: about North Carolina and why they

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_00]: weren't in North Carolina or what the

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_00]: deal was with North Carolina and a

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_00]: lot of the guys that we talked to

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: said something similar which is yeah

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: you know what we're not in North

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina it hasn't been on our radar

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: but I've had like five people reach

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_00]: out to me from North Carolina in the

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: past year so clearly it's growing it's

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: just I'm too in the weeds but yeah we're

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_00]: gonna look at it and so to step you and

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I that was kind of like this sign that's

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: like if we don't do it now then all

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: these producers that we want to represent

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and for us to be able to do what we

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: talked about which is bring all these

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_00]: wines into North Carolina that aren't

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: there then the chance would be gone

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: because they'd be working with somebody

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: else and so to us like obviously the

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: opportunity had to be there as well

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_01]: but domestic was never really your

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: thing and at least in New York right

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: no not at all I mean even when I was in

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_00]: California it wasn't a passion of mine

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: that's an exaggeration I love a lot of

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: California producers in Oregon and

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Washington but no I do see my focus was

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Italy and you know champagne and to

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: electrician the rest of France but most

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: of what I bought was Italy so I did

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: have to kind of learn a lot about

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: California again I didn't know as

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: much about what was going on about

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_00]: California and especially Oregon as I

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_00]: did and what's going on in Italy and

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: France so I definitely had to learn a

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: lot quickly about like who's kind of

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: up and coming maybe who's making some

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: just good wines now but probably

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_00]: gonna be making some great stuff

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: pretty soon but you also you can only

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: represent people that want to be

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_00]: represented by you you know I was

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: really self-conscious that so I'm a

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_00]: guy I'm not wealthy you know there's

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: some people who know me well but

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: there's you know a lot of people

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: who reach out to barely know me and so

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: why would they want to work with a

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_00]: distributor because we've all heard

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: horror stories from our friends that

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: are producers and suppliers about oh

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah like just through fifty thousand

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: dollars down the toilet cuz so-and-so

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: went out of business and never paid

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_00]: me or you know they ordered one time

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and literally never paid so we're

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: looking for somebody else we've all

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: heard those horror stories and so I

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_00]: was always paranoid but why would

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: they want to work with us it kind

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: of snowballed so in the way that

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: we built the portfolio with the

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: California stuff Stephanie and I would

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: have brunch sometimes when this is

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: going to sound like the name dropiest

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: thing ever but it would be like

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Jasmine Hirsch and Michael Cruz and

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Vinnie the Great Samoyed from Bartartine

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and whoever else was in town and so we

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: started bouncing this idea about

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: North Carolina to them and so we got

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of honest feedback from them

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: now keep it in mind so and Jasmine

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: is very well represented her wines

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_00]: are and so it was never thought that

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_00]: we would represent them but we do

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: represent Michael's wine so he had

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_00]: thought enough of the idea to allow

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_00]: us to represent them but they were

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of monumental and introducing us

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: to other people who might be

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: interested you know really there was

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_00]: an initial handful so is Ludi which

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: then comes with Presky or Erica

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: else back was very easy to convince

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: when I told him the idea he was

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: just like what can we do when we

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: get started send me a P.O. and I

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: was like I have to get permits and

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: stuff first and Dan Pracowsky at

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Massakin he signed on pretty

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: immediately Michael Cruz so when I

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: was able to go to these guys like

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: John Raytech at Saratoss and be able

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: to say kind of exaggerate what's going

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: on like hey you know so I'm going to

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: be working with producers such as

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and I would name the four that I'd

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: signed on and not necessarily say

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that it was only those four to make

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: it sound like I had more going on

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: than I did then I would at least

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: get a phone call and as it turns

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: out I was wrong they were all very

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: excited to work with somebody like

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: me what they really want is

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: somebody who's passionate about wine

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: because apparently that's more rare

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_00]: than maybe you and I would think

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and somebody who will represent

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: their wines well I don't think they

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: had thoughts that I would sell more

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: wine than anybody else that they

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: could possibly work with in North

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina I don't think that's why

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: they decided to work with

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Kellogg selections I think that

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: they thought that we would get

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_00]: their wines in the right places

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: treat their wines the right way

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: get them in front of the proper

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: people and probably show them a

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: good time when they visited

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: North Carolina.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So what's a number to start a

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: company like that what kind of

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_01]: finance.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly that number is around

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_00]: one hundred and fifty thousand if

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: you want to be able to have good

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: inventory and be able to not sell

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_00]: out of things the second that

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_00]: somebody decides to run with it by

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: the glass and to be able to have a

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: wide variety of products.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So that probably means you need to

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_00]: get some investors together right

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that's exactly right so

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Stephanie we're just going to do

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_00]: it on our own was the initial

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: thought so we could have started

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: with Grand Cruised Elections and

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: just had a small handful of

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: producers and like ordered every

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_00]: week like we were a restaurant

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: but that's not ideal.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And in Charlotte the importer

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Eric Solomon he lived there for a

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: long time and he's been a close

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: friend of mine for a good while.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And as I told him this idea

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: he's been a mentor to me for

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: a while and always visited

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: my Lena when when he would come

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_00]: to New York.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean he thought enough of

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: the idea that he is the one who

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: brought up the idea of

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: investing before we did.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're like well this is

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_00]: going to work out perfect

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: because we're not in love with

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the other options we have of

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: investments.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: He knows the business so we can

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: also lean on him like with

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: questions and he'll be invested

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: financially.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully he would give us

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_00]: the answers he believes in

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_00]: anyways but if he's

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: financially invested obviously

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_00]: the answers are even more

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_00]: legit and true.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that was I mean huge

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: for us that he was interested.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also nice because we don't

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_00]: carry any of his wines.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course not that he doesn't

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_00]: have great wines but there's

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: a separation of church and state

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: that way.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So he can only hit me up about

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_00]: numbers as an investor not also

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_00]: as my supplier.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know he told me that

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: if I'd done this five years ago

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_00]: he would have thought it was a

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: terrible idea but he really

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_00]: felt just like I did that the

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: timing on this was ideal.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Because there is an example

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: nearby which is Charleston

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_01]: in South Carolina and you

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_01]: know it's built out of quite

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: a food and wine scene right.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah yeah and I'm really

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: hoping that's what Charlotte

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: can become.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I spent a lot of time

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: you know looking at like what

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Harry Root did in Charleston

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and you know when I saw

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_00]: David McCarris at BevCon I

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: made sure to introduce myself

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and got to hit him up with

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: some questions or any advice

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and you know honestly what I

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_00]: said to David McCarris who

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_00]: has a great distributor there

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_00]: in Charleston as well was

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I said thank you for doing

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_00]: such a kick-ass job.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You're one of the reasons

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that people are willing to

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_00]: work with me even though I

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_00]: have no experience in this

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_00]: business.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing so well that all

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: those guys that might be more

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: skeptical of me are more

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: willing to work with me

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: because he's doing such a good

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_00]: job.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So what are some of the keys

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: to that?

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I think everybody talks

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_00]: to me about telling their

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: story the right way.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So you know everybody has a

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: unique story about why they

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: started the winery, what

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: their beliefs are in terms

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: of production you know

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: wine making most importantly

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: farming of course and so

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: what they really want you to

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_00]: do is to tell that story.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I had no idea that this was

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_00]: an issue but I guess what you

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: see is a lot of people not

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: telling the story you know

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: they'll buy the wine and the

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_00]: six months later they haven't

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: sold any so they give an

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_00]: incentive to the sales team

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and the sales team just

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_00]: like maybe they'll discount it

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: or you know what I mean?

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that with all

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_00]: the effort that people like

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: John Ray Tach or Dan

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Petrosky's putting into farming

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and wine making I don't

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_00]: think that's how they want

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: to be represented and

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously I would say that

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Harry Roode and David McCarris

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_00]: aren't doing that in Charleston.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And so do you have buyers

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_01]: like actively hunting things

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_01]: down or is a little bit more

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01]: like you just said kind of

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_01]: telling the story?

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean how does it work

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_01]: really on the ground?

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah so a little bit of both

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll have somebody reach out to

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_00]: me and like are you the one

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_00]: that has Rulo?

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah you have a little

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_00]: bit of people reaching out

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: to you but sorry to keep

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: mentioning Saratospit

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: that's actually a great

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: example because the first

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: drop we got I reached out

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_00]: to people in like there was

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_00]: two or three people that knew

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: the wines and would just like

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: ship it but everybody else

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I had to be like

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: sincerely I think this is one

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: of the top California Chardonnays

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_00]: if not the top please

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to have it open

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_00]: can I please combine taste you

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and be like sure sure sure

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and that would taste and you know

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: people were kind of blown away

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and we sold all the wines

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: that we got from Saratospit

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_00]: in that first drop.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Second release comes

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: of Saratospit and it's all

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: we just sent out

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: this is what I can give you

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was you know

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: it's gone like that

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and unfortunately we can't

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: take it out and sample

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and and do that's more fun

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: to do necessarily than just

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: sending out here's your

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_00]: allocation I'm sorry that I

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: can't get you 10 cases

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_00]: but this is what we have for

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you. So that evolution

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: of telling the story is

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: happening and it's

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: happening quickly.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Now we're telling the story

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_00]: without having to sample

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_00]: it which is a great

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_00]: evolution to see.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's one of the goals

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: that we have is to try to

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: build that trust with the

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: buyers look man if I tell

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_00]: you that something's killer

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_00]: then if you open a bottle

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and you don't think it is

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: like I'll buy back

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: whatever you don't like

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: like but just trust me

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: dude I can't sample it

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: out but this stuff is smoking.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_01]: On one hand you're saying

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: like I want all these people

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to learn and on the other

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: hand you're like trust me

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: bro.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Right right so then

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: it becomes what's more

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_00]: educational for them

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and so this kind of goes

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: into Stephanie's idealistic

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: ideas about how we want

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: to make Charlotte a better

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: place to be a wine lover

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: right. So is it better

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: for us to take out that bottle

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and to go visit like six

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: seven eight people in a day

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and taste them on it

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and tell them the story

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and they buy some

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and they don't buy some

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_00]: or whatever or what

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: if we save that bottle

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and we do a side by side of

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: whatever the topic is

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_00]: we do a side by side of

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: all the sorrows that we have

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_00]: some branch some California

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: some from whatever

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: like a more educational

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: tasting right you still

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: get to taste the wine

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: you get more people.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So it becomes more

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_00]: educational if you do fun

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: stuff like that.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So do you see real

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_01]: fundamental differences

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: between the buyers

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and North Carolina

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe that breaks down

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_01]: by city and the buyers

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: in New York or San Francisco.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the buyers

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_00]: in North Carolina

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_00]: tend to be a little bit

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: more conservative in doing

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: stuff that they believe in

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_00]: it oftentimes comes

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_00]: from their owners.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So I you know if I bring

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you a wine that I think

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_00]: is ideal for your restaurant

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_00]: concept and it's a great

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: by the glass price that works

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: with what you're doing.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_00]: The number of times that I hear

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: things like oh man

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I love that wine.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for bringing

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_00]: that that's really great.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody ever comes in and asks

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: for vermin Tino from California

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: but it was really good.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for bringing it

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're like no no I know

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: so here's that's where you

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_00]: commit.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You know and maybe again

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm treating buyers

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_00]: as if I'm selling to myself

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: because obviously it's not

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_00]: like dozens of people

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_00]: are coming to my Alino being

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_00]: like what Pella Verga

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00]: do you have by the glass.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We loved Pella Verga

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and so we were turning people

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: onto that.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So I remember you used to kind

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: of butt your head up against

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that when you worked in that

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: restaurant group before

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_01]: when you were in Charlotte

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: earlier in your career

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_01]: because you wanted to do more

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_01]: adventurous stuff and you

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: just didn't feel like the

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_01]: restaurant group was like

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: there with you on that

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and that was one of the

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: reasons you ended up leaving.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So do you think that things

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_01]: have changed now that people

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: could get away with more

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and that the owners just

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_01]: don't see it or what do

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: you see.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah that's a great point

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: because I do need to keep

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_00]: me put myself back in the

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: shoes of that guy who also had

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_00]: a super conservative list

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_00]: 10 years ago in Charlotte

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think I've changed

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: more than they have.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think I've just come

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_00]: to realize that if guests

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: come in if you have a

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: really good wine that tastes

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: like Pinot Noir and that it's

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_00]: light bodied, bright fruit

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: delicious it doesn't literally

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: have to be Pinot Noir.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: If it's great and great for

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: the price and you're

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: turning people on to

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_00]: something new.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas at the time I thought

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_00]: that you did have to

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: literally have Pinot Noir

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_00]: by the glass because that's what

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_00]: people ask for.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So really I think it's me that's

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_00]: changed more.

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I've come to realize that

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you have to be the one who

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_00]: turns guests on to new things

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: because they're not just going

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_00]: to come in and ask for

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Pelle Verga or Gamma

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_00]: or something.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_00]: They'll just be like I'll take

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: a glass of Pinot Noir

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and then when the response is

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: so we don't have a Pinot

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Noir by the glass.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you like Pinot Noir

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_00]: you'll love blank

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: either they don't care

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're just like yeah

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: whatever or they're excited.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So what is this again?

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: This is really good.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can gauge a

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation, build

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_00]: regulars and do all those

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_00]: great things so that hopefully

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_00]: you can build wine sales

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: at your restaurant by having

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: wine regulars not just food

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: regulars.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm trying to help them see

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that you can take a couple

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: more risks.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: One other problem in North

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina to be honest with

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: you is the big companies

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_00]: buying wine list placements

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_00]: via things like printing

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: cost.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So you can't literally pay

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: for placements.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Again be like hey if you give

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: me half the by the glass list

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: you know we'll give you this

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: check.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But they basically do the same

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: thing so they quote unquote

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_00]: pay for printing.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's some people who

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: literally do print it for

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_00]: them and it seems to always

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_00]: be these oversized wine lists

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that go in these hard to

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_00]: change plastic binders.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's very difficult for

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: the restaurant to change their

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: list or they'll literally

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: just write a check to a fake

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_00]: printing company for

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: placements as if the money

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: is going towards printing

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's way more than the

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: cost of printing.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So honestly when you visit

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: places where you're like man

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been to four restaurants

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: in the city and all the wine

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: lists have like the same by

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: the glass list.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what's going on.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It must be hard for you then

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: as a break in startup

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: distributor to kind of get

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: market share in that kind of

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_01]: environment.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah so you just honestly

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you just you don't bother

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: with those places which is

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: a shame but you have to

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: divide your time up and what

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: makes most sense for you.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So and they need to spend all

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: your time with the people

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: you know who don't sell out

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: their wine list.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Then the problem becomes so

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: let's say there's 10 really

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: great small portfolios

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: then we're all fighting for

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: like the 12 by the glasses at

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: that spot that doesn't deal

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: with the big guys right and

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: most of those places do still

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_00]: buy from the big guys they

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: just don't you know sell

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: their placements.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So instead of hurting

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: the big companies you know

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_00]: by taking a placement really

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_00]: what you're doing is another

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: small company is losing

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: placement which isn't ideal.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I would you know love to

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: partner with the other great

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_00]: small books in North Carolina

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_00]: as much as we can.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: My guess is a lot of the

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: people you're dealing with

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: are also kind of like

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: restaurant managers.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Very much so yeah.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes it's restaurant

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: managers that are passionate

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_00]: about wine.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: They're doing the restaurant

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: management job because it

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_00]: lets them be a buyer and

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you get to taste a lot of

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_00]: great wine and things like

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: that.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah in New York

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: that is you know professionals

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_00]: who do it all the time.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_00]: My experience in New York

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_00]: is also that people are

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_00]: take a longer view on it.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So our job is really to be as

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: profitable as possible for the

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurant as a wine director

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: right.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I talk as if I'm sell wine

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: director.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you build sales

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and maintain costs then

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you're going to make the

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurant more money right.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's something you

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: can tangibly show at the end

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: of every month.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is last year sales

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: this is this year's like

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: we're making you more money

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_00]: by me buying these cool

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: wines and building a

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: reputation where

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_00]: people kind of take a

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: shorter view.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurant owners can

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_00]: in North Carolina where

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_00]: it's more about controlling

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_00]: cost.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So they look more at the cost

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: percentage necessarily than

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_00]: growing sales

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: is a way for the beverage

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: program to make more money.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And for a lot of restaurant

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_00]: owners that have been around

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_00]: for a while they don't

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: necessarily believe that

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_00]: this Pinot Noir that you

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_00]: charge $12 a glass for

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_00]: will bring in any more revenue

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: than this Pinot Noir that

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you charge $12 a glass for.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't see the if you

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_00]: have a really great wine

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_00]: list you'll do more covers

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and more importantly you'll

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_00]: do covers of people who love

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_00]: wine who spend more money on

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_00]: wine and food because that's

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: what wine lovers do.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's much more about

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: controlling costs.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And so obviously getting a

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_00]: check just a flat out check

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: for placements is an easy way

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_00]: to just toss money directly

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_00]: to the bottom line.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we were both around in

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_01]: the late 90s right.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: During that period of time

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_01]: there was a lot of restaurant

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_01]: tours who were all about

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: having a big wine list

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_01]: because they wanted to maybe

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: get a wine specter award get

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_01]: more of a wine clientele

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: specifically for the reason

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that you said because wine

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: clientele tend to spend more

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_01]: money here in New York.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of that's cycled out.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't see the big two or

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_01]: three million dollar sellers

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01]: so much anymore.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like some of those

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_01]: guys ended up getting kind

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: of hit in one of the

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: recessions or maybe in some

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: other financial problems.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And they just don't want to

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: sink all that cost.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But I imagined that in a

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_01]: place like North Carolina

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01]: there would still be those

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_01]: dudes kind of squirrel in a way

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: of wines.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But is this just not the case?

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't want to say across

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: the board this not the case.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean there's places like

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_00]: the Angus Barn that have been

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_00]: putting wines away for a long

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_00]: time and have amazing

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_00]: collections.

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But what you see in New York

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_00]: is consistent there with the

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_00]: one page wine list that has

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_00]: 40 to 60 selections is

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_00]: certainly what's going on there.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You know one of the best

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_00]: wine lists in Raleigh is

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Pools Diner which is literally

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_00]: on a chalkboard.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And so you know that's a

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_00]: very small list but that can

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_00]: be very fun and very exciting

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_00]: too.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But another difference in North

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina from New York is that

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: you can't buy from private

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: collections.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So in terms of vintage depth

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you have to have purchased this

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: years ago over-purchased, sat on

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_00]: it.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And so you know that

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_00]: investment is very, very, very

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: rare.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas in New York if you

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: want to build verticals you

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_00]: can do that overnight from

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: via private collections.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: In a micro sense it is better

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_00]: for us that you can't buy

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: from private collections because

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you have to buy from

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: distributors.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: At the same time I'd much

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_00]: rather have a state with great

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: wine lists that becomes a wine

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: destination and hopefully you

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: get more people drinking one in

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: general.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: What's the pushback against

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01]: having a big list?

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: First of all most importantly

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: it's the monetary investment.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean putting a million

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_00]: dollars into a wine inventory

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you mentioned that to a

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurant tour and they just

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: look at you like you're

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: crazy but you know while I

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_00]: was gone from North Carolina

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_00]: for those eight, ten years it

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_00]: really became a beer state.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_00]: You know when I left I feel

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_00]: as if it was just becoming a

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_00]: thing where you had craft beers

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and not just the domestic

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: selections.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: In a lot of areas it was

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: almost like why are you

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_00]: paying six dollars for a beer

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_00]: man like Bud Light Street

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: dollars you're like you're

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_00]: an idiot.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Now when I come back there's

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: many, many beer lists that

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_00]: are strictly craft beers and

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_00]: strictly local because so many

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: local breweries have opened

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_00]: up and what the beer community

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_00]: has done a really great job

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: of that the wine community

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_00]: hasn't done as well with is

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: making education cool.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So not only are they drinking

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_00]: you know double imperial

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_00]: triple hopped IPAs but they're

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: also talking about IBUs and

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: the type of hops used and

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_00]: where the hops came from and

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: where the brewers background

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_00]: is and when I hear people

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: ordering wine in North

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina and again there's

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_00]: always exceptions to this

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a number of great

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_00]: wine buyers that are doing

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_00]: this.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_00]: The wine community hasn't

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_00]: done a great job of making

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: it cool to talk about where

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_00]: this wine comes from what

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: the grape is necessarily

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_00]: unless it's one of the ones

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that are familiar with what

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: the farming is with the

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_00]: production technique is that

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_00]: if you start talking about

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that there's not a lot of

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: interest even when I am

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: straight to consumers and

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_00]: insores they're not that

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: interested in it.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And so somehow beer has done

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_00]: a much better job with

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that than us in the wine

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: community.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think could

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_01]: change that?

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_00]: More relaxed great places

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: to drink wine.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You know when I think of

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: the wine bars in North

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina a lot of them are

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_00]: super deity kind of places.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So like it's great to take

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: a date there it's like mood

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_00]: lighting and there's like

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_00]: velvet chairs just sit in

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's cushy and

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: comfortable but it's not

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: the kind of place that like

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_00]: you myself and like two

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_00]: other buddies would want

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_00]: to go.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's very much

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_00]: set up like a date place.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So and then there's a

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: bunch of breweries where

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: you can drink beer and

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_00]: talk to people who help

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: brew it and they're all

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: designed so that people can

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_00]: hang out and it's kind of

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_00]: replace bars in a sense.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You talk to bar owners at

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_00]: least in Charlotte I don't

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_00]: know if it's true the other

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_00]: places but so it's tough

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: for them to compete because

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: one they have to charge

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: more for the beer because

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a middle tier that

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: takes a mark up on the

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: beer as well.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And the breweries did a

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: really great job of making

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_00]: the place is comfortable

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and fun to drink out which

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: bars aren't always.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_00]: The breweries are very

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: fun and they're low key

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're not pretentious

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and even if you don't want

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: to hear about I be used

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_00]: like you still go there

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and have a couple beers

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's not really

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_00]: venues for that in North

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina where you can learn

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_00]: about what the wine is and

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_00]: try something new and not

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_00]: feel like talk down to

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of it is us working

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_00]: the floor. There's not a

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: ton of people strictly work

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_00]: in the floor selling wine

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: in North Carolina which

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: would make a giant difference

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_00]: like remember like even 10

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_00]: years ago in the company

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I worked for in New York

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: USAG you remember Danny

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: used to say things like

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_00]: he took pride in the fact

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: that Union Square Cafe

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_00]: didn't have some ways.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: The age of the sommelier

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: is dead right and then

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_00]: fast forward to when I left

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_00]: in every restaurant in the

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_00]: company had four or five

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_00]: six some ways on staff.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And so obviously he saw

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_00]: what a difference that makes

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of service and

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: guess enjoyment and obviously

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_00]: profitability.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And that just obviously

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: hasn't happened yet North

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina outside of a small

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_01]: group. Well what I saw

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: with Danny was really that

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_01]: to me it seems like when

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: you look at the restaurants

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: the type of people that

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_01]: would have made a really

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: great motivated assistant

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: GM or GM type person

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_01]: say 15 20 years ago

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_01]: today those people are really

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_01]: interested in wine

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_01]: that same sort of motivated

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: wants the team to do well

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: pitch in all around

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_01]: willing to put in the time

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: the sweat the hours.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. That type of person

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_01]: typically is on the wine

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_01]: track these days as opposed

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: to the management track.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And it seems like

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: as management layers

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_01]: have decreased sommelier

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_01]: layers have increased

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_01]: if I'm reading it correctly.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I would agree with that.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I think financially it makes

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: a big impact but also in terms

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_00]: of level of service it does.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you were to let's say

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_00]: do an open call

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and you were hiring for

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_00]: managers captains

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and some ways.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_00]: You know the fifth best

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Somali applicant

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_00]: would be the top person

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: in the other two categories.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And so you're absolutely

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: right. If you can take

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_00]: advantage of that market

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_00]: where there's a lot of

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: talented people who are

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: super interested in wine

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and also really good at

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: service and then kind of

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_00]: replace the other positions

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_00]: with those people.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's where the talent

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_00]: is then I mean that's pretty

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_00]: obvious.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_01]: When it comes to the wine

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_01]: lists that are there

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_01]: what's the breakdown

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_01]: we've talked a lot about

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_01]: domestic but are people

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_01]: interested in wines from other

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_01]: countries or.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah very much so and it

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't have to be what you

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and I would think of is

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_00]: the other countries.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you and I were

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: putting together wine lists

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_00]: we might go straight to

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_00]: France and Italy.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: South America is much bigger

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_00]: there than in other markets

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_00]: but Spain is amazingly

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_00]: popular especially in

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Charlotte.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So I talked about Eric

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Solomon earlier he lives in

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Charlotte and has obviously

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_00]: done a great job of making an

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_00]: impact where you know a list

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: in New York that has like

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_00]: France Italy California

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and Spain would probably be

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Spain would have the least

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_00]: SKUs out of those four

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_00]: probably in New York and

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_00]: probably by far whereas in

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Charlotte you look at that

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: list and Italy probably has

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: the least SKUs and Spain

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: probably has more than France

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_00]: so it's more Spanish driven

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: than it is France or Italy

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_00]: which is super unique to me.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't remember that from

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_00]: when I was there before but it

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of makes sense.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's got to be a

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_01]: little bit challenging for

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01]: you because your real strength

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_01]: was Italian wine at least

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_01]: when you were in New York.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah but so we choose to

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_00]: look at it and said that

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_00]: it's an area of opportunity

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_00]: so we literally have zero

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Spanish wines in our book

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: because we don't really

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_00]: feels if we can add anything

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00]: to that conversation that's

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: not already covered in North

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina whereas Italy we

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_00]: feel like there's huge

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_00]: opportunity to add to that

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation show people

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: wines that they've never had

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_00]: before and producers are not

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_00]: familiar with and so for us it

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00]: looks like a huge opportunity

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: for growth which is kind of

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_00]: the way that we looked at

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: everything.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: We've been trying to hit it

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_00]: where they ain't you know

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_00]: like so there's plenty of

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Napa Cabernet represented

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: North Carolina so that's a

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_00]: very small portion of our

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_00]: book only when we found

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_00]: somebody like Enfield did

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_00]: we add Cabernet to our

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_00]: portfolio because we felt like

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_00]: we could add something to

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_00]: the conversation at that

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: point and that's the way

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00]: we've looked at everything.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_01]: How else do you see the

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_01]: portfolio fitting together?

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_01]: What are moves that you would

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_01]: like to make it maybe down

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_01]: the road?

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great question

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_00]: because I'm really playing

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_00]: it by ear.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You know you can really only

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_00]: take what's available

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and while I'd love to have

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: like you know Conterno

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and Mascarello in my book

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: you know those wines are

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: already well represented

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and so you can only take

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: you know what's available

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and so for us it's

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: just keeping that level

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_00]: integrity that we have

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_00]: right now.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But we're not specifically

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_00]: looking for regions or

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_00]: areas because the number of

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_00]: times where I heard the team

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_00]: that sells for us there's

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_00]: like I really have a lot of

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_00]: requests for like a Merlot

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_00]: by the glass you know like

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_00]: if I could find a California

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Merlot at a buy the glass

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_00]: price point that I thought

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_00]: had integrity I will bring

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_00]: it in a heartbeat but I

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_00]: have not come across that

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're not going to just

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_00]: start like checking boxes

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's things that

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_00]: people order like California

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Savneam along that we would

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: sell for under 10.

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_00]: If I found one that I was

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_00]: proud of I'd love to jump

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_00]: on that but it's just not an

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00]: area where we've been able

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_00]: to find something we believe

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: in.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So not to be a Debbie downer

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_01]: but it sounds to me like the

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_01]: model is these things are

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_01]: really cool in New York.

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people in

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_01]: North Carolina don't know

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_01]: about them.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to carry them in

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_01]: North Carolina and introduce

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_01]: them to people.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be important for the

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_01]: community.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But what if the things

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_01]: that are popular in New

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_01]: York never become popular

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_01]: in North Carolina?

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean what are you

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_01]: going to do?

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Well man I hadn't thought

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: about that.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_01]: If it doesn't work then I'm

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of screwed.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe people have a regional

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_01]: taste is what I'm saying.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You know one of the

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_00]: interesting things I learned

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_00]: about selling wine

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_00]: is what doesn't work is if

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_00]: you tell them that oh yeah so

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_00]: here's this wine and like you

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_00]: know if you look at the

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_00]: listed Eleven Madison Park

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and you know The Modern

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_00]: this wine is on all of those

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_00]: lists like it's just hot.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You should really buy this

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_00]: like that does not work

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_00]: whatsoever.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_00]: That's that you know I

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_00]: really don't care what

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: people in the big city

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_00]: do like I form my own

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_00]: opinions I've been buying

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_00]: wine for 10 years like

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_00]: like that has the opposite

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00]: effect.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So we've definitely made

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: an effort to not push it as

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_00]: a like this is what the

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_00]: New Yorkers are do and you

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_00]: know that's a dining scene

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_00]: that's ahead of you guys so

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_00]: you should be doing it as

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_00]: well.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's definitely you

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_00]: know there's a lot of wines

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: that are very well thought

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_00]: of in the New York

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Sanwaya community that have

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: not gone over well in North

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina so far.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's just like

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_00]: every other one like the

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_00]: people who get it and like

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: it will buy it and everybody

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_00]: else won't and you know that's

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_00]: about all you can do.

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean if the wines in

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_00]: general don't go over well

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: then I don't know I guess

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_00]: everybody has to face that

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_00]: point where when you open a

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurant and you don't

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_00]: want to you know change

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_00]: the level of what you're

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: doing with the food and

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: service and if people aren't

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_00]: getting it you can either

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_00]: go out of business or you

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_00]: can make wholesale changes.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_00]: You know Stephanie and I

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_00]: had a lot of conversations

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_00]: about we were going to

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_00]: carry ones that we believed

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_00]: in you know if it doesn't

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_00]: work then you know

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_00]: unfortunately we're just

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: going to have to pack up and

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and have it not work.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_00]: The reception thus far I think

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_00]: has shown that that's not

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_00]: going to be the case though.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a little bit of that

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_01]: like Yankees don't tell us what

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: to do down here in the south.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely 100% yeah.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_00]: When I present things that

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_00]: even if I say I ran with

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: this by the glass at Mileno

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_00]: for the entire time I was

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: there that's how much I

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: believe in this one it

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_00]: still goes over like it

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_00]: makes it more difficult to

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_00]: sell that wine.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They have to really be blown

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_00]: away if I set the wine up

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: like that even if the person

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_00]: does not from North Carolina

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_00]: there's still a lot of I don't

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_00]: care what they do in New York.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess then looking at

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: something like Charleston could

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_01]: be helpful for you to say like

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_01]: oh well it can work down here.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a great analogy.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah the relationship to

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Charleston is a lot more

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: they're more comfortable with

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_00]: that they'll say like oh like

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: who else is buying this and

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be like oh you know so

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and so bought it you know

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: they came from Charleston

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_00]: so they already knew the wine

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and so I'd before I could even

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_00]: bring it to them to taste they

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_00]: bought it and that's people

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_00]: have like a really they were

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_00]: working with Charleston like

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_00]: oh that's cool and they're

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_00]: much more into it than if I

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_00]: bring up the New York thing.

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So what's a natural wine scene

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_00]: like not as much as I think

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_00]: in other markets there's a

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_00]: handful of people that they

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_00]: don't have an opinion on

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: orange wines yet and they

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_00]: don't necessarily have an

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_00]: opinion on natural wines but

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_00]: they read about it and they

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_00]: know it's a thing and so

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_00]: they want to try it.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't really come across

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_00]: people that are like

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_00]: dogmatically in favor of it

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and I don't come across

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_00]: them any people that are

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_00]: dogmatically like no I don't

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_00]: like natural wines and same

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_00]: thing with orange wine so

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_00]: the place where the education

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: is and the interest in the

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_00]: wine buyers is that they're

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_00]: very much trying those

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_00]: things on and so they're

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_00]: interested in trying it but

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know of any places

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_00]: that are selling a lot of

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_00]: natural wines because the

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_00]: wine buyer at that place is

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_00]: very much into it.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So who is an average wine

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_01]: buyer is that person in

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_01]: their 20s is that person in

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_01]: their 40s?

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Probably in between.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's been huge growth

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_00]: in North Carolina recently

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_00]: especially in Charlotte.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the literal

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: numbers but the city has

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: grown exponentially over

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_00]: the past 10 15 years that

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_00]: city then becomes younger.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very millennial

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_00]: wine buyer so they're

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_00]: drinking things that their

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_00]: parents didn't their parents

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: definitely drank Cabernet and

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_00]: so let's all assume that

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Cabernet is going to

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_00]: become less important in that

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_00]: area because that's just the

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00]: natural evolution of things.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But oftentimes that I don't

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: drink Cabernet goes to Malbec

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_00]: it doesn't necessarily go

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_00]: towards I don't drink Cabernet

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_00]: let's have some game A.

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So you mentioned that a lot

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_01]: of the people who are the

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_01]: most interested in your book

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_01]: are people who have worked

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_01]: in other markets and then

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_01]: come back or moved to

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_01]: North Carolina for the

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_01]: first time.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_01]: The flip side of that would

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_01]: be do you ever worry that

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_01]: you're going to turn somebody

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_01]: on to all these cool wines

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and then they're going to

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_01]: move to New York?

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you ever worry that the

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: person you train is going to

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_01]: do like what you did?

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I wouldn't say that it's

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_00]: a worry of mine but to be

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_00]: honest with you there's some

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_00]: buyers that I work with that

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_00]: should go to New York and

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: spend at least a few years

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_00]: getting the chance to work in

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_00]: the best wine market in the

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_00]: country and learning a lot

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and being able to taste those

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_00]: wines and getting more

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_00]: experience because they just

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_00]: won't be able to do it where

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: they are. So I don't really

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_00]: worry about it it would

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously like it means you

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_00]: have to train a brand new

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_00]: person and that person who

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_00]: replaces them may not even be

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_00]: interested in being open to

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_00]: us. So it could be bad for

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_00]: business but to be honest

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_00]: with you if I can help that

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_00]: person grow like I'd much

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_00]: rather do that.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But we've known each other for

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_01]: a few years now and I think

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the things that

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_01]: really surprised me about you

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01]: was that you were able to

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_01]: build a team and kind of

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_01]: empower them because you're

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_01]: a smart guy, you're clever,

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you're a good salesman but

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that dude isn't always a good

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_01]: team builder, that guy.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But you really impressed upon

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_01]: me that you were when you

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_01]: worked at Mileno and you

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_01]: brought in a young staff.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I think you really picked

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_01]: well and then you gave them

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_01]: some rope and they seem to

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_01]: like you a lot which

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_01]: surprised the hell out of me.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Now that you're on the

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_01]: distribution side what are

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_01]: you doing when you're

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: hiring?

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You know we've been very

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and thank you for saying

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_00]: that we've been very

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_00]: fortunate with the talent

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_00]: that we've been able to

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_00]: get. So there's not that

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_00]: minute if you're a wine

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_00]: nerd who wants to sell

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_00]: wine in North Carolina

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_00]: there's not a ton of

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_00]: jobs for you.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the wine sales

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_00]: people are salespeople who

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_00]: could be selling books,

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_00]: they could be selling

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_00]: vacuum cleaners, they just

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_00]: happened to have gotten a job

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_00]: selling wine and so you know

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_00]: they learn about it but

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not a passion.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So kind of the wine nerds

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of gravitated to us

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and so we've been

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_00]: extremely fortunate with

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the talent that we've been

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_00]: able to work with.

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe people like working

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_00]: with me.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure I think it has

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_00]: more to do with the

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_00]: portfolio but

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_00]: you know it was really I

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_00]: appreciate you saying it

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_00]: because it was one of the

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_00]: things that surprised me

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_00]: about my tenure at Mileno

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_00]: was I didn't necessarily

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_00]: think of myself as somebody

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_00]: who enjoyed mentoring

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_00]: other people.

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I was working so hard to kind

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_00]: of get myself to where I

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_00]: wanted to be that I didn't

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_00]: necessarily think of myself

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_00]: as somebody who is good at

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_00]: mentoring others but you know

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a big responsibility

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_00]: when those people are like

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_00]: yes I could work at a

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_00]: number of places but I

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_00]: want to come work for you.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be a wine

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_00]: director and I want you to

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_00]: help get me there.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You know when you're

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_00]: giving that job offer

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt a huge responsibility

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_00]: that yeah I'm going to do

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_00]: everything I can to help you

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_00]: get where you want to be.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know a lot of that

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_00]: is empowering people to

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_00]: be in charge of something so

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_00]: unfortunately you have to

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_00]: make mistakes to learn

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_00]: sometimes and it's the best

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_00]: way to learn so you can't

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_00]: make mistakes if you're not

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_00]: in charge of something get

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_00]: to make decisions.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So I try to do the same

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: thing with the sales team.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_00]: It's one reason I think

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_00]: that we're going to be able

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_00]: to retain people is when

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_00]: somebody comes to me and

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_00]: says like hey could we

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_00]: drop this price a little

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_00]: bit this person says they

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_00]: could do it by the glass

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that we did this price.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And well what's the price

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that they would buy it at

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_00]: right because we're not going

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_00]: to make much money on this

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_00]: but you know I want you to

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_00]: get the placement.

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll have a back and forth

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'll say OK so here's

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the thing this is the lowest

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_00]: we can possibly go.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously you get more

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_00]: commission if you sell it

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_00]: for more.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to let you

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_00]: make the decision.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You talk to the buyer

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_00]: you work with them you

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: read it.

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: This is on you make the

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_00]: decision being adult and

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to let you run

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_00]: your business as you want

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_00]: to.

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And for the most part people

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_00]: really enjoy that not

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_00]: everybody.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I think people are more

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_00]: engaged and enjoy their job

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_00]: more if they have ownership

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and they feel like they're

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of running their own

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: small business within your

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_00]: business.

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And you can retain people.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And back to my Lino that's

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_00]: what we were able to do is

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_00]: put people in charge of hey

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you get to run the buy the

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_00]: glass program right now

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_00]: you're in charge of

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_00]: ordering you're in charge

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_00]: of this and really give them

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_00]: responsibility that you can

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_00]: have monthly meetings with

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and say well this is what

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_00]: you're doing while this

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_00]: which are not and give

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_00]: them a chance to show off

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_00]: so they can hopefully grow

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_00]: as well.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit of that is

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_01]: situational in terms of

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you're working within the

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_01]: laws of North Carolina which

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_01]: you know you wouldn't be

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: able to change prices just

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_01]: as you wanted to in New York.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So are there other

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_01]: examples of that are there

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_01]: are there unique or

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_01]: different kinds of laws in

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_01]: North Carolina that you're

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_01]: like oh I wonder if we could

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_01]: do this as a result of

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Well one of the most

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_00]: interesting laws is you

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_00]: can't base any price

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_00]: on volume.

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So I could say if you were a

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_00]: buyer I could say to you

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll charge you 10 for this

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and I can charge everybody

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_00]: else in the world 12 and

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_00]: that's totally the only.

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I just can't say if you buy

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_00]: this many cases of it then

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I can give you 10.

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course the other

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_00]: really tricky law is that

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_00]: liquor is completely separate

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_00]: from wine so liquor is only

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_00]: sold through state run ABC

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_00]: stores for better or worse

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_00]: probably better for us

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's gonna

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_00]: lickers where the money is

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_00]: so it keeps those deep

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_00]: pockets away from buying

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_00]: more placements than it's

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_00]: already done.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So when I look at people who

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_01]: are about 10 or 15 years

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_01]: older than you and I because

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_01]: we're about the same age

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of them

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_01]: worked as Sommiers and then

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_01]: went to work for domestic

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_01]: winery as like a in-house

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Sommier or national sales

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_01]: rep or regional sales rep.

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And my question always for

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_01]: someone like yourself and

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_01]: myself who worked often

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_01]: with European wines was

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_01]: what were we going to do

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_01]: when we left the floor

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_01]: because we probably weren't

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_01]: going to go work for a

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_01]: California winery and be

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_01]: their national sales rep.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So is this the answer then

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_01]: is the answer that they're

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_01]: going to segue into

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_01]: distribution and have

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_01]: small portfolios?

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's definitely one

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_00]: of the ways in which you

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_00]: because I've always wondered

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_00]: that same thing.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I think both of us have

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_00]: seen guys that we thought

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_00]: were really good

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Sommiers that then worked

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_00]: for somebody and you're

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_00]: what I know that that guy

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't like that wine.

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_00]: That's so interesting.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that was something that

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I never thought that I could

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_00]: personally do.

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I guess it is one of

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_00]: the ways in which you can

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_00]: avoid having to do that.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like being

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_00]: a wine buyer in that you

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_00]: only have to work with

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_00]: wines that you're passionate

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_00]: about.

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think it's one

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_00]: of the many ways that

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_00]: some ways are finding that

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_00]: they can own their own

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_00]: business and kind of control

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_00]: their own destiny.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you're a guy who is

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_01]: really good at convincing

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and working with guests.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen it in action.

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So I know it's true.

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Now you're sort of one step

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_01]: removed from that, right?

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you're working with

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_01]: someone else to get through

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_01]: to a guest.

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And so is that a big change

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_01]: for you?

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I feel like one of

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_01]: your strong suits was

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_01]: dealing directly with guests.

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's honestly it's really

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_00]: hard for me like I'll be

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_00]: in a restaurant and I'll

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_00]: like want to jump in and

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_00]: like answer the question

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_00]: like for the bartender.

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also difficult for me

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_00]: to get across again.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mentioned

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_00]: earlier that like I know

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that nobody's coming in

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_00]: asking for this specific

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_00]: type of wine.

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what you do.

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You turn them on and you

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_00]: get them excited about it.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So I would say that

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a really good chance

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_00]: that I'll be involved in

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurants again just because

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that passion to want to

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_00]: take care of guests and show

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_00]: them a great time and turn

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_00]: them on to wines is

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_00]: is not going away.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I kind of thought it

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_00]: might.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I very much miss

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurants.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's very hard to

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_00]: not be able to talk to guests

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's even more difficult

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_00]: to deal with buyers that I

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_00]: feel like aren't as passionate

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_00]: about dealing with guests

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_00]: as I was.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Distribution, it's all

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_01]: about the inventory, right?

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Like controlling that

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_01]: inventory, controlling that

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_01]: cost.

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's very hard because

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_00]: we didn't know what would take

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_00]: off and what wouldn't.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was very conservative

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_00]: when you first order.

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Rhyme makes a skin

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_00]: fermented vermin tino, the

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_00]: his vermin tino, which is great.

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But I was super conservative

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_00]: when I ordered it.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, I don't know

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_00]: how this is going to go.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, literally, I

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_00]: think I might have ordered

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_00]: like two or three cases

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_00]: to start with, right?

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Just to see what happens.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And our sales guy

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and Raleigh basically took out

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_00]: one bottle and then sold us

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_00]: out of that and to order

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_00]: more like on the fly.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, shipping from

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_00]: California, it takes a little

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_00]: bit more times than your 86

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_00]: for a while.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a lot of lessons

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_00]: learned about how to do

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_00]: inventory.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, we're also not

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_00]: in a place where we can take

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_00]: big risks, you know, and bring

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_00]: in pallets of stuff that's

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of a risk.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of obnoxious

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that we're making small orders

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_00]: from like Grand Cruisese

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_00]: elections, the importer

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_00]: out of New York two times

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_00]: a month instead of just like

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_00]: once every three months

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_00]: just bringing a ton of wine.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's the realities of where

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_00]: we are. And you know, as we kind

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_00]: of learn lessons and run out of

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_00]: wine and have to apologize to

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_00]: people. And luckily my wife

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_00]: did logistics for wine

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_00]: importers, both in New York and

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_00]: California. So I mean, her

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_00]: experience, man, if I had to

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_00]: deal with shippers and customs

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and truck companies and

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_00]: thank God she's so good at

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_00]: it because we would probably

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_00]: go out of business if I had

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_00]: to handle all that myself.

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And working with somebody

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_01]: like Grand Cru, they have a

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_01]: much bigger portfolio than you

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_01]: bring in. So how does that

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_01]: discussion go? Like how do you

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_01]: pick and choose?

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Ned Benedict sends you an email

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_00]: with the subject just saying

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_00]: like the name of a producer.

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the email says

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't want any. And he's

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_00]: basically saying, hey, I want

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_00]: you to pick up some of this

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_00]: wine that you haven't yet.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's been a really

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_00]: interesting relationship with

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Grand Cru.

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So I always I love the wines

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_00]: they bring in about a lot of

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_00]: wines when I was a wine buyer

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_00]: in New York and really

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_00]: wanted to work with them because

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_00]: they weren't in North

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina yet. And I just could

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_00]: not get them to give me an

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_00]: answer on whether I could

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_00]: carry their wines or not. So

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_00]: one of the partners, Ned

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Benedict, who's roughly 300

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_00]: years old and kind of

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_00]: curmudgeoning and hilarious, I

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_00]: kept bugging him like, hey, can

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I can we talk about this?

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about this thing

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_00]: just kept putting me off

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_00]: putting me off their national

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_00]: sales guy. He wanted to be

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_00]: in more states. And so he

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_00]: was kind of pushing it. So

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_00]: he was a huge ally for me.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I just couldn't get an

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_00]: answer. Just yes or no, zero

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_00]: answer. Right? So you have to

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_00]: meet with this guy, talk to

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_00]: that guy, talk to that guy.

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody will give an answer.

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_00]: They just like talk to me and

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_00]: just like, yeah, I don't know

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_00]: why Ned wanted us to talk.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was I was in town

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_00]: in New York for something else.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I was living in California at

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_00]: the time. J. Latham, the

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_00]: national sales guy just

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_00]: tells me just so they're

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_00]: having a meeting with a lot

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_00]: of their producers who

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_00]: happen to be in town at

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the same time, just go like

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_00]: they're having a couple other

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_00]: distributors from other states

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_00]: there. Just go to the office at

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_00]: this time. So I'm like, all

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_00]: right, cool. So literally, I

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_00]: just go to the office, right?

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_00]: There's been no agreement.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Ned knows I want to do it.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Ned knows what I'm doing, but

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_00]: he refuses to answer. I go, I

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_00]: taste with the producers. I

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_00]: like take notes, asking a

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_00]: bunch of great questions. And

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_00]: then I leave. I just send a

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_00]: PO of what like I'm

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_00]: planning on picking up and

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_00]: like my first initial order

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_00]: to Ned. And he literally is

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_00]: still never said yes or no.

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_00]: They sent me the wine that

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I ordered. I've paid for it.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm selling their wines. J

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Latham's come to visit North

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina, but I've yet to

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_00]: receive a yes from him that I

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_00]: can carry a wrong crew in

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_00]: North Carolina with Ned. I

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_00]: just fake it until you make it

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_00]: or something like that.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Were there other kind of like

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_01]: remarkable stories like that?

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I was talking to

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_00]: the national sales guy

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_00]: totally. I didn't even realize

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_00]: he was national sales for

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_00]: transatlantic bubbles. I was

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_00]: having conversation with him

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_00]: about something else and

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_00]: telling me what I was doing.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_00]: He said, Hey, do you want

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_00]: to sell our shamans? No,

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_00]: there was like, I had no idea

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_00]: that that's what you did.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Like are you kidding?

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I love those ones.

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's literally how it happened

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_00]: like out of the blue.

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Talking to producers is really

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_00]: interesting because it's not

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_00]: something that I've done before.

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But I really wanted Saratas.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I think those ones are brilliant.

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So Stephanie and I are driving

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_00]: cross country. We're driving

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_00]: through the mountains in Utah.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_00]: The word took a weird route

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_00]: because we're visiting friends

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_00]: in this case Denver.

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So the time that we had

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_00]: scheduled to talk to him, I

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_00]: call him we're talking

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_00]: starts going in and out.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And I lose the call.

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. So this is terrible.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So I keep checking my phone for

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_00]: bars or I'm driving.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So Stephanie is and when we get

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_00]: bars, we just get off the

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_00]: highway and we pull into the

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_00]: park. It's like a subway

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_00]: somewhere in Utah.

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_00]: We have bars. So I call them

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_00]: back. He's like, oh, you know,

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I lost you.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Just I know you said you were

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_00]: in the mountains.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So he knows we're driving

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_00]: cross country.

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. And so like, yeah,

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_00]: we pulled off the highway.

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We're in a subway parking lot

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_00]: because we got some bars and

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_00]: you know that we'd finish

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_00]: up this conversation.

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_00]: No exaggeration.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_00]: We talked for another hour

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and a half.

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're sitting in a

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_00]: parking lot in the middle of

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_00]: a cross country chip that we

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_00]: delayed for an hour and a half

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_00]: because I really wanted

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_00]: seratost.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So literally there's a point

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_00]: at which I hit mute on the

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_00]: phone and I said to Stephanie,

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know, I don't care

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_00]: how long this takes.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I really want seratost

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and she was like, yeah, it's

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_00]: fine. I'm going to go get a

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_00]: drink though.

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So I finished up the

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation with John and

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_00]: all works out well because

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_00]: now we're selling their wines

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and we have a great

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_00]: relationship.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And we were just an hour

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and a half late getting to

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_00]: our next destination,

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_00]: which is totally fine with me.

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_00]: What about the business side?

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, one of the areas

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_00]: that I realized is you can get

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of mentorship when

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_00]: you're a sommelier or a wine

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_00]: director and how to be better

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_00]: at doing that.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the wine

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_00]: community is amazing in that

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_00]: regard and teaching you about

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_00]: wines and taking you on trips.

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But when you start your own

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_00]: business, there's not

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_00]: there's not that many people

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_00]: that can help you with those

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_00]: avenues.

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, again, on Name Drop,

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Rajat Parj has been great in

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_00]: giving me advice about

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_00]: career moves to make.

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And his whole thing was just

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_00]: whatever you do next, stop

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_00]: working for other people.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to start your

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_00]: company with you'll be poor,

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_00]: you'll be in debt, you'll be

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_00]: stressed out like crazy, but

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_00]: you'll feel so much more

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_00]: fulfilled. You'll be happier.

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You'll love it. And I know

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you'll be great at it.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I took that recommendation to

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_00]: heart. But there's not like

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_00]: when you're reaching out for

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_00]: people, if you don't have

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_00]: investors that really know

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_00]: business, like even things

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_00]: like, so do I want to be an

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_00]: LLC?

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_00]: We an Escorp?

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, who should we get

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_00]: to hand? I don't know how

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_00]: to do accounting.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what I can

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_00]: write off and how to do that.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's not a ton and

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you get different answers from

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_00]: everybody. So, you know, I

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_00]: would love someday to be able

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_00]: to help people learn how to

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_00]: start their own small business

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_00]: within this, you know, restaurant

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_00]: wine world because man, is

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_00]: there a huge hole for that

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_00]: right now?

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, in terms of the

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_00]: business side of that, that's

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of what I've learned

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_00]: like, man, thank God for

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Stephanie. That's what I

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_00]: learned like, I already knew

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_00]: that I was really lucky guy,

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_00]: but now I'm like

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_00]: incredibly lucky.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So basically the move to start

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_01]: your own distribution is marry

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_01]: someone who has expertise in

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_01]: global shipping.

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_00]: That's extremely helpful.

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I imagine a lot of people are

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_01]: going to end up doing what

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_01]: you're doing, which is they're

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_01]: going to segue off the floor

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and do something in

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_01]: distribution.

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_01]: There are so many young

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_01]: sommies now

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and that didn't used to be

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_01]: the case. Everyone used to be

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_01]: older. It was like their

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_01]: second or third career

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_01]: to be a sommie.

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. But now there's all

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_01]: these people and

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_01]: they're not going to do it

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_01]: for 40 years.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to do something

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_01]: else.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe sooner than they think.

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So my thing is what's going to

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_01]: happen with all those people?

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Are they going to go and have a

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_01]: second career? Are they going to

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_01]: go back to med school

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_01]: or are they going to do

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_01]: something in wine? And I think

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that's really what's going to

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_01]: determine where the wine

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_01]: culture in the States goes is

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_01]: what happens to all those

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_01]: people.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You and I have seen the number

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_00]: of avenues that you can go.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You can make wine for yourself.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You could start a podcast.

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm really hoping is

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_00]: those people because you're

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_00]: right, there's so many more

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_00]: young sommies and they're not

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_00]: going to be on the floor when

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_00]: they're 50. And so what are

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_00]: they going to do? I'm really

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_00]: hoping that they open

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurants because, you know,

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_00]: all the restaurants that open,

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_00]: of course, it tends to be driven

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_00]: by who the chef is and chefs

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_00]: have an easier time getting

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_00]: investors and getting money.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And so sometimes the wine

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_00]: programs lack because not

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_00]: every chef cares about wine

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and not every chef understands

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_00]: the profits that a wine program

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_00]: can bring to their restaurant.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But the more sommies that you

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_00]: have opened up restaurants,

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously the food still has

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_00]: to be great. So they have to

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_00]: have a chef partner or just

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_00]: hire great chefs. But I'm really

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_00]: hoping that to make the world

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_00]: a better place to drink wine in

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurants, that a lot of the

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_00]: sommies start opening their own

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurants, which maybe it'd

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_00]: be great if those New York

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Psalms come down to North

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Carolina and open wine

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_00]: focused restaurants. People moving

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_00]: from other markets is a giant

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_00]: help. I think it would only

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_00]: help the North Carolina wine

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_00]: scene and get more diversity

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of the wine list.

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Jeff Kellogg thinks that people

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_01]: moving from one place to

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_01]: another can have a huge impact

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_01]: in the wine scene of those

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_01]: different places. And that's

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_01]: advice that he has followed

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_01]: himself. Thank you very much for

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_01]: being here today.

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me, Levy.

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Good to see you.

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Jeff Kellogg of Kellogg

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Selections in North Carolina.

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_01]: All drink to that is hosted

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and produced by myself, Levy

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Dalton. Aaron Scala has

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_01]: contributed original pieces.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Editorial Assistance has been

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_01]: provided by Bill Kimsey.

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_01]: The show music was

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_01]: performed and composed by

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Rob Moose and Thomas Bartlett,

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_01]: show artwork by Alicia

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_01]: T'Noyen. T-shirts, sweatshirts,

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_01]: coffee mugs and so much more,

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_01]: including show stickers, notebooks

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and even gift wrap are

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_01]: available for sale.

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_01]: If you check the show website,

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_01]: all drink to that pod.com.

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_01]: That's ILL drink to that

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[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_01]: That's super important to see

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[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you for listening.

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_00]: When you do business with

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_00]: people, you read like you

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_00]: think, you know, the producers

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_00]: because you visited them and

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_00]: you've worked with their wines

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and they've done in a

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_00]: restaurant. I've learned more

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_00]: about the producers and who

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_00]: they really are and how the

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_00]: business really works, you

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_00]: know, and who actually looks

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_00]: as if their wine is

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_00]: something they put their

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_00]: heart and soul into and who

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_00]: thinks of it as, you know,

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_00]: they could be selling apples

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and it would they would

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_00]: probably treat it the same way

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of who they have

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_00]: sell it and what their

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_00]: philosophy is on when they

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_00]: ship and those sorts of

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: things. I've learned more

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: about, you know, certain

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_00]: producers integrity.