475: Giacomo Oddero Remembers the People Who Believed in Barolo

[00:00:01] The interview you're about to hear is with Giacomo Odero, who was born in the mid 1920s and who witnessed the transformation of the Barolo area in the aftermath of World War II up and through to the current day. Giacomo's interview is translated by Isabella Odero,

[00:00:32] who is Giacomo's granddaughter and who has interviewed herself on this program back in episode 100 if you'd like to hear that as well. One of the aspects that Giacomo Odero mentions in the upcoming interview is the influence of the Italian wine critic Luigi

[00:00:48] Verinelli on the push for single vineyard labeling of Barolo, and although crew names like Canubi were found on very ancient bottles of Barolo, it was only in the second half of the 20th century that labeling Barolo as a single vineyard wine became a commonplace

[00:01:06] in the wider zone. In episode 417 of Ill Drink to That, I spoke to Alessandro Masteghetti and he used to work for Luigi Verinelli. What I asked Alessandro was to tell me about Verinelli's influence on the development in the 20th century of single vineyard Barolo. Here's

[00:01:49] he saw in this evolution, so in this putting the name of the vineyard on the label, a way for the small producer to be more respected or to have the respect that they didn't have

[00:02:09] in the past. And for Luigi was very important. This was a way for him to say, come on people, you need to be respected. There is many producer of that were born in the 50s can tell you

[00:02:27] that in the 70s when everybody went to the Fiat industries in Torino to make a living and they were remaining in the hillside and they went to the discotheque on Saturday, no girl wanted to dance with them because they were working not in the Fiat, but they

[00:02:50] were working in the vineyards. And oh my God, you're not a good choice. And now things are different unfortunately and maybe cause of Luigi Verinelli's choice. Ill Drink to That where we get behind the scenes of the beverage business. I'm Levi Dalton. I'm Erin Scala.

[00:03:12] And here's our show today. Giacomo Odero on the show today from the Poderi Odero in La Mura in the Piemonte. Hello, sir. How are you? Quindi potrei dire sto abbastanza bene, quella abbastanza con l'accento. He is doing quite well. And so you were born in 1926.

[00:03:52] He was born in 1926 and he started to go working in the vineyards with his family when he was 15 years old. So he has 75 harvests on his shoulders. And what were the first harvests like? What were your first experiences in a vineyard?

[00:04:19] When he first started to go in the vineyards to help with the harvest, his responsibility, his duty was to pick the single berries that they were lost on the soil. Because at the time, completely different than today, they could not waste anything.

[00:04:41] The wine business didn't exist at all at the time. The international markets didn't exist. So they really put all their efforts in keeping everything they had and satisfied local requests, which was small. We are talking about a very different reality.

[00:05:01] He remembers when his grandfather used to tell him about his experiences in 1878, when he first started to go to Milano, all the way to Milano, to present the wine and started to sell the Barolo mainly in Demigions.

[00:05:20] So the wine was not bottled at the time, but they used to sell in Damigiane, Demigions. And so his grandfather started at the time, the market was local. So talking about northern part of Italy.

[00:05:34] His grandfather used to tell him that some years later, they presented the wine in London for the very first time, so outside of the borders of Italy. So if he thinks of these old memories, he sees how many steps towards quality the whole area did in these years.

[00:05:56] Now, you know, the Lange area is part of UNESCO World Heritage since 2014. So if he looks back, he can see how many single small efforts, one after the other, the previous generations did.

[00:06:14] What is the winery that you recall as a child when you were in the winery facility? What was it like at that time? The first room was the second cellar next door. The first room was where there was a kind of museum.

[00:06:28] When he was a little child, of course, the winery was much, much smaller. We had only one room and this room was built by his grandfather, whose name is Giacomo, like his name. So in the second half of 1800, he started to vinify.

[00:06:48] During 1910, so under his father, they enlarged with a second room, which is now where we have the museum of the old instruments. But this was a very small room and this was enough. This was good enough to complete the whole production, to have the whole production of

[00:07:12] the time. Only after the Second World War, so starting from 1945, they built the second part, which is larger and is still used today. And you can notice the difference because the very first room, the oldest, and the second, they were built in a period of peace.

[00:07:37] And you can see even from the walls because there's a harmony there. The materials they used, they were better and better looking, of a better quality. The second room, the one built after the Second World War, is not so pretty, honestly. It's very, very, very simple.

[00:07:57] And this is a memory of hard times. It was started by his father and then completed by him and his brother when his father passed away. So very simple, just cement on top. But of course, we have to respect every time, every period, and all the difficulties.

[00:08:23] In your childhood, what was Lemora like as a place? When he was younger, Lemora probably was more populated than it is today. Because with the years, many people, they left the country areas and they moved to larger cities.

[00:08:46] So he remembers then when he was a child, Lemora counted about 5,000 people living there. Now it's about 3,000. Of course, he's saying that thanks to the great improvements made by the viticulture, the wealthiness, the level of life has increased so much compared to the past.

[00:09:11] He remembers very well when he was a child, living here, there was a family of people working also for his family. During the Second World War, or right after the Second World War, they decided to move to the US.

[00:09:28] And now the family, they still live there in New Jersey. Because of course, we were in a very difficult moment, very poor times. So they left. And he remembers very well this image of the whole family living in the country here in the courtyard.

[00:09:46] And many, many years after, in 1986, when he was president of a delegation of producers, he went to visit New York and New Jersey. They were presenting the wines of the region. And he went to see again the family.

[00:10:03] When he traveled to see this family, he was traveling with one of their brothers, who decided at that time to stay in Italy. So he grew up in Italy. And when they met all together, the family moved in the US.

[00:10:18] Of course, they missed a lot the Italian food. But also this man, the brother, was so surprised to see on one hand the very free life that characterized the American way of life. But also the houses, they were built in wood.

[00:10:39] We have the houses in concrete and stone. So he said, OK, maybe it was better to stay in Italy. I don't know. I'm not sure they made the good decision. In Piedmontese dialect, this man said, if I give a kick to this house, this house falls down.

[00:10:56] Come back to Italy. I have a house which is much stronger. And this facility here where we're at today in Santa Maria, this was originally a school? In the past, the family had two brothers. One took this house. The other one took the house which is next door.

[00:11:22] So three minutes walking. And that one was the school, the primary school. So all the children who were born in the area, they attended the school in the house in front of ours. So at the time, each generation needed to contribute to the building of the house.

[00:11:44] And when a member of the family used to get married, they used to build a new part of the house to continue to enlarge the original structure. So the first area, this was built more than 250 years ago.

[00:11:59] And then little by little, every single member of the family who got married built two rooms, one on top of the other. And they used to live all together. So this house became little and little longer.

[00:12:13] The most recent part was built 90 years ago when his father got married with his mother. So still today, the responsibility of the members of the family is to continue to build, continue to improve, continue to expand a little bit. And this is what he did with his brother.

[00:12:33] He built a new part of the winery. It was not anymore a house but a winery. This is what my mother and my Aunt Cristina did. They added a new section of the winery. And of course, his grandchildren, they have the same responsibility for the future.

[00:12:52] In the past, it was possible also to buy many vineyards. This is what he mainly did in his life, to expand buying important vineyards in the Barolo di Ossigiera. And so post the war, the situation was probably that people were leaving the countryside

[00:13:08] and that things were a little more difficult. Immediately after the war, our viticulture was in serious trouble. It was in great difficulty, both because in Italy there were still... After the Second World War, it was a very tough moment for the area for many reasons.

[00:13:28] But also the viticulture, the local viticulture was suffering a lot because no laws existed to protect, to define the rules, but also to protect the production, especially of the small farmers, against any kind of sophistication of the wine. So the companies that benefited the most were larger companies,

[00:13:52] but the small farmers were suffering a lot. So that's why many families took the decision to abandon this area, because they were encountering, suffering many difficulties. But it was thanks to his generation, to the people who stayed in the area,

[00:14:10] who believed in the area, in the potentials of the territory, that with the years, with many efforts, but it was a union of efforts, that they were able to cooperate and to establish, to create, to write the DOC first and the DOCG after,

[00:14:30] the legislation laws, the disciplinaries, to protect our production, to protect the typical wines of the area. And he remembers the great help he had with some other producers, majors of the area. He was at the time a major of the town of La Morra. He was the mayor.

[00:14:51] He was the mayor, yeah. And he cooperated with Rinaldi, he was mayor of Barolo, Giovanni Battista Rinaldi, so the father of Citrico, he was mayor in Barolo, together with Renato Ratti, Arnaldo Rivera in Castiglione Falletto, Giovanni Gaia in Barbaresco,

[00:15:16] Negro Giovanni, that came later, in the area of Roero, Giovanni Negro. It was a long period that lasted more than 30 years, started in the 60s and ended just at the beginning of 2000 and this was the moment when all together, they built the laws to protect the wines.

[00:15:39] First Barolo and Barbaresco, then the disciplinaries of Dolcetto d'Alba, Barbera d'Alba, Nebbiolo d'Alba, Lange Nebbiolo and also Roero, Roero Arneis, and also Moscato Dusty, which is in a great percentage produced here in our hills, in the Lange, so Moscato Dusty, DOC and then DOCG and Asti Spumante.

[00:16:00] He remembers that at the time they used to work all together, and the priority was to let the other people, the other farmers understand that they had to focus, not so much on the quantity, but on the quality. So produce less, but produce better.

[00:16:20] This was their motto at the time. So of course with difficulties at the beginning, but all these people in different ways, they promoted this principle. So many times they used to meet here in this room where we are now, together with Rivera, with Rinaldi, with many other producers,

[00:16:43] to discuss and to convince other people, other farmers to declare their production. This may look a very simple thing now, but at the time the people, they might think that it was just a way to pay more taxes. So some people, they didn't want at the beginning,

[00:17:04] they had to convince them to register their vineyards in the Albo dei Vigneti. Albo dei Vigneti means list of the vineyards, and this is fundamental because now we have the control of all the production of the area. All the vineyards, they are listed in this big register,

[00:17:25] and the production is controlled. And now, here we are. The people of this generation, the people who decided to stay and not to go away after the Second World War, to go away was also sometimes an easier decision

[00:17:45] because to stay here meant that you needed to work harder. They really saved our viticulture because without their help, the vineyards would be completely lost. And many people of his age, his generation, friends who initially left the area and went maybe to work in other farms and wineries

[00:18:12] in Australia, in Brazil, in California, because there was emigration at the time, after some years they realized what was happening here and they came back. One of them was also Renato Ratti. He moved first to Brazil but then immediately realized

[00:18:32] and he came back and started to work at his own family winery and as we know, to write the topography of the vineyards of the area. Hey, it's Levi and I just want to pause the interview here for a moment to highlight something that Giacomo Odero just said.

[00:18:52] He explained that Renato Ratti moved away from Italy briefly, landing in Brazil, before later deciding to return to the Piemonte and make that his home. And this is notable because of how significant Ratti became for the wines of the area. When I asked author Victor Hazan about Ratti

[00:19:11] in episode 431, this is what he told me. Renato Ratti was a hero of yours as well, right? Not just my hero but my mentor. Renato Ratti was the head of the Enological Institute in Alba and he had a wine estate of his own.

[00:19:29] And this was the area where the greatest of the Italian red grapes is grown, Nebbiolo, where the first Italian red wine to be put into a glass bottle with the vineyard name was produced and Renato Ratti was proud of his heritage

[00:19:50] but unfortunately he died of cancer very young. And to specifically note why Ratti was so important, let me share with you what Michael Garner said in episode 420. Michael Garner is the author of the book Barolo, Tar and Roses. You probably started to see in significant number

[00:20:13] people doing single vineyard Barolo by that time. Yeah, absolutely. The crew was the thing. And everyone claims to have done it first. That's what they're like. Probably Renato was certainly amongst the first but there again Vietti was close as well and a whole number of others.

[00:20:31] But yes, it was an idea that had taken off by then and I think a lot of that was to do with Renato Ratti who I also met on numerous occasions and thought the world of. Renato Ratti was a wonderful guy. We dedicated the book to him

[00:20:48] because he died I think just before it was published, sadly. But he was a great modernizer and I think perhaps doesn't these days get the recognition that he deserves what he did. He was probably the first guy to map out the great areas of Barolo

[00:21:09] which everyone knew were there and everyone acknowledged but he was the first to say look, this is a concept we can build on and we need to build on it just as we need to improve our wines. You can understand from these comments why Ratti was so pivotal.

[00:21:26] He drew the map of vineyards that would become the basis of a whole vineyard system in the Piemonte and the names of the crews that he outlined would be placed on bottle labels changing how we often think about Barolo today. Also, Ratti influenced

[00:21:42] a generation of prominent wine writers including Victor Hazan and Michael Garner and what Giacomo Odeiro is saying in his interview is that all of that almost didn't happen. If Renato Ratti had decided to stay in Brazil we would think of Barolo differently today

[00:22:00] and that's really what Giacomo is emphasizing here how important it was for people to work and live in the Piemonte. We'll return to the interview with Giacomo Odeiro to learn more about how Giacomo's own father influenced his decision making in this regard

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[00:23:18] Go to dm-closures.com forward slash idtt to learn more that's d i a m dash closures with an s dot com forward slash idtt for more information What was your father like in general? What was his personality? My father was a very serious man very honest very shy

[00:23:46] and he was very ill His father was a very serious man very honest and very humble he says also very shy He had some difficulties during his life and he was very ill He had some difficulties during his life especially during the second world war

[00:24:10] but after the second world war to cooperate with other people in the vineyards or in the production of wine at the time because again there was no legislation no protection so many people also some negative negative characters they were abusing their power to do the small farmers work

[00:24:36] so because he was a shy person he always told them about the difficulties he had in the relationship with these personalities with these personalities Unfortunately he died at the age of 58 and my grandfather was 22 Luigi was 19 and from that moment they took the decision to continue

[00:25:02] with the family to the winery themselves and he thinks that also because he passed away so young gave them the strength to stay with their mother to stay here in Lamora to continue in the memory of their father It really sounds like

[00:25:26] a lot of what happened for you next was driven on a personal level by the desire to see the cooperation and the legislation to get the DOC to protect the small farmers and at the same time to stay in the place those were driven by the personal history

[00:25:46] It was a very strong incentive and impulse also because my father certainly the memory of his father was the leading principle that guided him through the years to the creation of more control of more seriousness in the area because his father told him so many times

[00:26:14] there are people they say they produce Barolo they don't even know what Barolo is so they were abusing using the name in the wrong way they were putting in the name of Barolo other grapes and they don't even know what Barolo is and he pursued this battle

[00:26:40] not only for Oddero winery he really wanted also the other people the ones that maybe didn't have a strong voice to have this opportunity to have this control and possibilities to do their own job and to start their own production so many families they had difficulties

[00:27:04] all year long but the grapes they were paid very very little so the small farmers they were represented the weakest point of the chain it was so important all together to establish this legislation against fraud also to protect these small productions because the larger companies

[00:27:32] they used to at the time were coming from southern part of Italy mainly from Puglia that used to happen so it was so important to establish a law to avoid this kind of fraud so when you were a boy what vineyard holdings did Oddero control?

[00:27:54] when I was young there was the Brico Chiesa which we have here near our house it was called like this they were all located in Santa Maria and La Mora area so they were all different parcels but located all around the house first of all Brico Chiesa

[00:28:16] which is the vineyard close to the winery Brico Chiesa is named after the church of Santa Maria then Brico San Biagio Bettolotti which are all areas in Santa Maria and also Le Ru Vineyard near La Mora Le Ru means Lequerce the oak trees a beautiful south position

[00:28:42] and his family started to buy these first vineyards little by little from a Jewish family who used to live in Cherasco so close to La Mora they were one of the major landowners in the area and they started during that time to sell these parcels to many different

[00:29:08] local families to many different farmers after the second world war my grandfather Giacomo and his brother Luigi they decided because they had on their property it was mainly La Mora they decided they wanted to look for vineyards located in the main villages of the Barolo area Castiglione Falletto

[00:29:36] and Serralunga so they wanted to purchase some of the most historical vineyards some of the best parcels in these different areas and this is what they did with all the money they could put aside during their life so we had Rocche di Castiglione Vigna Rionda Mondoca in Busia

[00:30:04] the original property was La Mora and then with the years they wanted to see the different terroirs you made some very good vineyard purchases and key vineyards what guided you at that time? I was a pharmacist in Alba because we must not forget that pharmacists are those who

[00:30:32] practically kept on baptism so he chose to study pharmacist he became a pharmacist so he was working in Alba as a pharmacist and he wants to tell that the pharmacists in the area they all played a very important role for the wines there are many of them

[00:31:02] who are quite famous for the help of the wine so he was not involved in the everyday work at the winery because his brother Luigi was the one who was working in the fields in the vineyards but it was mainly thanks also to his activity as a

[00:31:27] pharmacist in Alba that they were able with the years to put some money to help the family they had the children who left and they moved to Alba to work for Ferrero or to Torino to work for Fiat so parents they were maybe too old to take care

[00:31:58] of the vineyards and they were more interested in these important parcels they were not looking for large amount of land for large parcels but they were looking for good positions and at the time the hills didn't look like today they were not all planted with vineyards

[00:32:27] but the vineyards that were there they really were they could really select those small parcels that were very good and first with Brunate in Lamora they wanted to have differences in the soil composition in the position so they went to Castiglione Falletto they went to Serralunga d'Alba

[00:32:56] looking for the best sun exposure the best sori so it was a bit too multi-communal at the time it seems historically that a lot of people stayed in one sort of general region with a few exceptions like Vieri and yourself so were there challenges to the farmers

[00:33:31] of the same region they cultivated the vineyards in different parts the principal rule when buying parcels and working vineyards all the farmers they have this rule is not to have one unique plot in one position and the other also to avoid hail so that you could

[00:34:06] save at least one parcel and protect at least part of your production this is also a very simple reason but this is at the basis of why we have these best sunny exposures and they didn't care much if they were only in Lamora so comfortable and close to

[00:34:43] the winery but also in Saralunga so different areas we've of course many more difficulties than the one from Lamora to Barolo to Castiglione Falletto but this was a challenge they wanted to have to protect their production to have less damage from hail to have a different

[00:35:12] more diverse expression of soil and exposure of course today with a little bit more mechanization with the tractors and the first vineyards that they already owned in Lamora was Brunate in 1968 this happened not for a specific plan but because they had the opportunity he was mayor in Lamora

[00:35:44] and he found the opportunity of a man who wanted to sell so many times these opportunities so he bought Rocche in Castiglione Falletto the vineyard Rocche di Castiglione and the year after Tenuta Parà which is here in Santa Maria that one was a large acquisition for the family

[00:36:09] because the previous owner asked them the price of 10 millions of ancient lira which at the time was a lot of money and they were about to say okay no we can't afford this but their mother she was the one who encouraged them who pushed them to continue

[00:36:37] not to be afraid and so they made many debts and they bought Tenuta Parà which is by the way where the winery Luigi Vigni Tuttero and after the acquisition which was a quite large property it took them some years to recover from the debts and then

[00:37:01] in the mid of the 1970s they started again with the acquisition of the property of Vignolo Lutati which is a famous agronomist from Castiglione Falletto and these properties the ones we bought were Brunella, Villero from Arnaldo Rivera which is now the vineyard under the castle of Castiglione Falletto

[00:37:29] menzione geografica Scarrone not anymore Rivera but at the time the name was Rivera di Castiglione and beginning of 1980s Mondoca in Busia and after Vigneria Rionda Serralunga d'Alba So the single crew bottlings began for Proderi Odero and I'm not sure that I'm realizing now from what you're saying

[00:37:56] that when I had the 1958 Proderi Odero that was all Lamora fruit Yeah, exactly So it wouldn't have had Villero, Rionda Brunate in it even though that was my assumption when I drank it and then in the 60s it would have been mostly Lamora fruit still Brico San Biagio

[00:38:21] Leruro Geri mid part of Lamora Ol Parà Brunate and then Rocchi di Castiglione Rocchi di Castiglione same year of Brunate so 1968 Ok, so that's really interesting to me actually because it's actually totally changing my understanding of the older Odero wines because I really liked understanding them differently now

[00:38:50] Yeah, so the 50s and the 60s they were fruits blended together all parcels Santa Maria and Lamora They were co-ferments It wasn't that they were vinified separately and then blended It was a blend of grapes Of grapes During harvest time So then Rionda was essentially one of

[00:39:11] the last purchases Yes, and happened beginning of the 80s The only vineyards that we are not owning anymore at the moment are Rivera which is now Scarrone and this is property of Vigneti Luigi Oddero Tenuta Parà is Vigneti Luigi Oddero Bettolotti a part of Villero which was divided

[00:39:41] a part of Vigneria Rionda which was divided into Rocca Rocca di Castiglione Castrina Capalot and the Santa Maria and Ronate So the decision was made in 1982 at Odero to bottle the cruz separately or at least some of the cruz and what was the decision making at that time

[00:40:11] what were the thoughts This is a long story It starts with his father Giacomo and Luigi's father he was convinced and he taught them all his life about the beauty and integrity of Barolo Classico His philosophy was really to choose even only some rows of some vineyards

[00:40:40] that we know at the time were mainly located in La Mora but with different characteristics so some which were more vocated to give the pleasantness some with more tannins so to give more depth on the palates blended together it was a blend of fruits back then he believed

[00:41:09] this was the best example and as teaching to his children so Giacomo and Luigi they always produced only one Barolo following their father example and this was the Barolo Classico which still today for my family is the most important wine So only recently and it happened that

[00:41:41] they started to think about the possibility to keep some grapes aside some specific grapes coming from only one parcel after the acquisition of Rocche di Castiglione in the end of the 60s they always blended this grape and in the end in the 70s with a very good year

[00:42:13] like 1982 decided to produce Rocche di Castiglione as single vineyard but he says that they were skeptical they were not 100% convinced fully convinced that Rocche di Castiglione was one of the most important Italian journalists for wine and food which is Veronelli he really spent a lot of energies

[00:42:53] in promoting the territory and the concept of cruise so because they trusted that the only balanced was Rocche di Castiglione so they started with this some years later they started to add more vineyards as a single vineyard these were Vignamondo Cabussia and Vigna Rionda but they always

[00:43:33] they spent all their life producing Barolo Classico so this is the wine of their heart of his heart now even when blending the grapes together to produce the Barolo Classico they knew a little bit the geology the differences in the soil the cru philosophy with the different

[00:44:05] management of vinification keeping the grapes separate having a separate vinification this aspect was so accentuated so he was so fascinated so curious so surprised to finally see to finally give life to offer drinkability to offer balance harmony when you choose to express the single vineyard

[00:44:42] you have to understand the specific vineyard the specific personality and you have to wait for them they are not ready when you release Vignia Rionda needs 20 years Brunate a little bit less the wines like they are a human being like they have their own soul their own identity

[00:45:09] were there specific characteristics that you realized in the glass regarding the cru? Si, si a lume di naso sometimes especially with Brunate which is one he likes a lot because he loves the specific aromatics of this vineyard which is high elevation fresh so has this fresh cut herbs

[00:45:40] it's easier for him to feel them directly, straight away when he tastes the wine of course Vignia Rionda darker nose he says darker because it's more long lasting more austere and flowery Vignia Rionda can be compared like a racehorse when it's young he needs to learn

[00:46:08] how to walk but then he runs but truly speaking the wine that makes him feel at home still today is the Varolo Classico when he puts his nose in the memory of his past it's so intriguing for him to see that from one single variety in a Violo

[00:46:40] blend of different vineyards different rows of the same hill but different sun exposure you have so many different expressions but very well because his childhood belongs to his story his personal life so at that time with your brother what decisions did you make about the winery

[00:47:11] first of all when they started when their father died and they had to manage the winery what they tried to do was to stop their production especially because their father was so shy not so good not so good with the relationship he was not a very talkative man

[00:47:45] he didn't have any contacts he didn't leave them any market open to sell and to place regularly the wine and they were lucky enough to start working with a company which at the time was based in Milano the name is Sutti now not existing anymore but it was

[00:48:16] a big distributor and they worked for many years with this company and the winery could have such a good representation and that's why many of their old bottles are so well known in the whole country and many restaurants in their cellars still have bottles from the 50s

[00:48:49] from the beginning of the 60s and the wine for some years 3 to 5 years we had no representation in Italy so this was quite a hard time then they started to sell mainly in Europe and in the 80s in the US talking about the philosophy and this was

[00:49:23] what they learned from their father and this is what they learned to do they wanted to represent Barolo both with the positive and negative aspects somebody may think that the tannins of Nebbiolo have bad characteristics they didn't care they didn't care because this was the wine

[00:50:01] that was typical for them that was traditional and expressed the identity of our region so they never changed the style they were not so in the 90s they started the cooperation for the very first time so quite late with a consultant which is a quite famous consultant

[00:50:37] in Italy the name is Donato Lanati up to 1990s no consultant so all the wines he didn't teach them how to make wine because it's 100 years that the family makes wine of course he had more scientific knowledge great palate he tasted so many good wines from different areas

[00:51:13] so it was like a wave of freshness especially because what my grandfather cares the most is that especially in those years in the 90s with so many producers so many winemakers they started to change their winemaking style they started to produce more modern Barolos Donato Lanati understood our

[00:51:47] needs and then of course when my aunt started to join the company we stopped with the consultant this is a different story What have been the key vintages that you remember now that you look back over your life? He remembers 1972 was a disaster he said it was

[00:52:23] annata grama grama is Pinmontese word that means bad cattiva ugly very bad they really didn't have the quality and all the producers of the whole area the whole region they agreed with the quality to him this is important here a personal satisfaction because he saw

[00:52:56] the union of will of the people they finally realised that the important thing was not to produce the wine was to produce a good wine the important thing is to protect the wine this was a success a personal satisfaction another vintage whose memory is very vivid

[00:53:25] still very alive to him is 1959 this is the year where my aunt was born in the middle of the harvest and everybody was expecting a boy Luigi didn't have any child at that time my mother and they were looking for a boy finally a boy in the family

[00:53:55] and then Cristina she arrived in the middle of the harvest and she was a girl and so when he came back home and told Luigi that she was another girl they had quite a big problem for the future and Luigi didn't have children at that time

[00:54:26] so they were a little bit concerned to put it in a gentle way but this is so significant to him today because his daughters so my mother and my aunt they are doing a good job and Cristina she studied agronomic sciences so she is a girl

[00:54:56] but she was the one who followed his path and she's taking care of the production since 1996 1997 so he remembers all the other key concerns of the era what were some of the things that were very important at that time besides the formation of the DOC

[00:55:25] there were so many issues at the time of course but fundamental most important was that all the langhe not only Barolo but the area was lacking water we didn't have the aqueduct we didn't have the system to bring water to the houses to the villages so that when

[00:56:01] a tourist or a guest used to come to the families it was much easier because you cannot improve agriculture you cannot have a good viticulture and you cannot make wine you cannot clean the tanks so it was priority number one and during his career as a mayor

[00:56:33] they built a huge system from the Alps to the people from the mountains the mayors of the villages where the system was about to start all the people they were so surprised that the winemakers they were so interested in water and they wanted to be paid in wine

[00:57:07] in exchange of water because it was impossible of course without water it was impossible to think to expand the wineries without water to clean the barrels to have good wines with no bad aromas from that moment the wineries were able to develop to increase their spaces

[00:57:39] and that's really how the winery started in 1970 and ended in 1991 so it took quite a long time to complete the whole construction did other areas of the Piemonte like the Alto Piemonte did they have different sources of water like Gattinara Gamay it was raining water probably the area

[00:58:14] of the highest part of Piemonte because it is much closer than we are to the mountains they had better solutions to retrieve water and many years before we did in the Lange the only provision of water was a tank to keep the water from rain but of course

[00:58:45] this was not practical at all so at the time it really looked like a dream to have such a developed and long system of bringing water to even the smallest hamlets in the world as a boy Giacomo Odero was given the job to search out find and save

[00:59:17] the Nebbiolo grapes that otherwise would have been lost thank you very much for being here today we are very honored of your visit we thank you it is an honor it is fundamental it's so important so precious Giacomo Odero of Poderi Odero in Barolo

[00:59:45] All Drink to That is hosted and produced by myself Levi Dalton Erin Scala has contributed original pieces editorial assistance has been provided by Bill Kimsey the show music was performed and composed by Rob Moose and Thomas Bartlett posters, notebooks and even gif wrap are available for sale

[01:00:11] if you check the show website alldrinktothatpod.com which is the same place you'd go to sign up for our email list or to make one of the crucially important donations that help keep this show operating you can donate from anywhere using PayPal or Stripe on the show website

[01:00:35] thank you for watching every episode and thank you for listening I would like to thank the Vaira family of Barolo who helped make this interview happen. Thank you I can still reach the heart of this house it's still the same as it was before these little drawings

[01:01:13] are the ingenuity the structure of the house stayed the same the space the rooms and the decoration of the ceilings every room is painted in a different way and he loves he's so attached to the memories because before the Second World War they painted all the

[01:01:43] ceilings with images of the vineyards of the hamlets still today