Alicia Towns Franken is a Co-Founder of Towns Wine Co. and the Executive Director of Wine Unify.
Alicia discusses her upbringing in Chicago and her introduction to wine in college. She then segways into describing her role as the Head Sommelier at Grill 23 & Bar in Boston, Massachusetts during the 1990s and early 2000s. Alicia talks about the bigger themes of her career, including inclusion, mentorship, building community, being hospitable, building long term relationships, and being a woman supportive of other women. She also talks about the differences between the 1990s and now in the wine world.
Alicia details how the experiences in her life affected and shaped her work, and how she organized her life as a parent raising two children. She identifies the connecting thread of her mentorship in the wine world and the parenting in her personal life. She discusses what makes a good mentor, and what support and scaffolding can achieve for mentees. She further addresses the challenges and rewards of personal and work transitions. Alicia stresses the importance of education, as well as the need to welcome more people into the wine world.
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[00:01:03] I'm Levi Dalton and this is Ill Drink to That where we get behind the scenes of the
[00:01:10] wine business.
[00:01:28] Alicia Towns-Franken is on the show today.
[00:01:30] She is a co-founder of Towns Wine Company and the executive director of Wine Unify,
[00:01:36] a wine mentorship program focused on diversity.
[00:01:39] Hello, how are you?
[00:01:40] I'm fantastic.
[00:01:41] How are you?
[00:01:42] It's nice to see you.
[00:01:43] We met originally quite a few years ago when you were sommelier in Boston and I was a young
[00:01:49] waiter or sommelier at that time back in the 90s.
[00:01:53] But you were not born in Boston, you were born in Chicago.
[00:01:56] Absolutely.
[00:01:57] And your family, were they into food?
[00:01:59] Were they into wine?
[00:02:00] What was it like when you're grown up?
[00:02:03] Not the typical definition of being into food.
[00:02:07] Definitely not into wine.
[00:02:08] My family was not big drinkers and wine was absolutely not a part of our lives.
[00:02:14] Food?
[00:02:15] Yeah, my family loved food.
[00:02:16] They loved to cook.
[00:02:18] My grandmother loved entertaining and so Friday night was a good time.
[00:02:21] People would come over and play cards and the kids we got to watch and then we had to go
[00:02:25] to bed.
[00:02:26] But yeah, it was good.
[00:02:27] It was great to see just the community together, eating together, laughing.
[00:02:32] So much joy.
[00:02:34] People talk about black joy and there truly is an amount of joy that comes at the end
[00:02:38] of the week.
[00:02:40] I grew up in a large family, although I'm an only child.
[00:02:45] An aunt of mine died when I was a year so we took in her four daughters as well and
[00:02:50] the family just grew so there are lots of people.
[00:02:52] But you know, we bonded together to make ends meet.
[00:02:56] There are 15 in my household, you know, my mother and her siblings and their children
[00:03:01] and my great grandmother who was born in the 1800s, who I loved and who I got to hang out
[00:03:08] with and be in the kitchen while she was making biscuits or whatever she was doing.
[00:03:14] I love the stories that they had to tell, but I love the hospitality that they showed
[00:03:18] to the neighborhood as well.
[00:03:19] I mean, they wanted to be a part of it and definitely I felt like our house was a pulse
[00:03:23] of the neighborhood, which was great.
[00:03:27] My grandmother and great grandmother, and I think we all have said this, would remind
[00:03:31] us that people won't remember what you said, but they'll remember how you made them feel.
[00:03:37] And I think that's really important and that's something I tell my kids to this day.
[00:03:40] Sounds like a lot of strong women in the family.
[00:03:44] Definitely a matriarchy.
[00:03:46] And just, I loved my childhood.
[00:03:50] I love these women that I look up to till this day and that some of them I miss who
[00:03:55] are no longer with us.
[00:03:56] But yeah, we were just a force.
[00:03:59] And this is Chicago in the 70s?
[00:04:01] This is Chicago in the 70s and until I left for school in the 80s.
[00:04:07] Actually I was the first person to graduate from high school in my family and then to
[00:04:11] go on to college.
[00:04:14] And it opened up doors for more members of my family going after me, which was great.
[00:04:20] Why do you think you were the first to graduate from high school?
[00:04:24] I like to read.
[00:04:25] I was a quiet kid.
[00:04:28] Teachers liked me.
[00:04:29] I did incredibly well and they were pushing me along and guiding me.
[00:04:34] I had amazing support, not only from my family who saw that I wanted something different
[00:04:41] and from the teachers and administration that really helped me get on to something
[00:04:49] different and to explore a different world.
[00:04:53] Loved my upbringing.
[00:04:54] Loved my family.
[00:04:56] I wanted to expand and to experience different things.
[00:05:02] The things that I was reading about, the things that I was watching and hearing on television,
[00:05:08] I wanted those things.
[00:05:10] So just like recently in the pandemic people were traveling through wine and I was traveling
[00:05:16] through books and I wanted to experience them.
[00:05:21] Where did wine come into the picture for you?
[00:05:24] I worked in restaurants that pay for school and that's where I got introduced to wine.
[00:05:31] We always start somewhere and then you end somewhere else.
[00:05:33] And I was really fortunate to be able to taste things that I would have never known about
[00:05:38] if I hadn't worked in particular restaurants.
[00:05:41] I didn't grow up around wine as we mentioned, but in college as an undergrad I cut my teeth
[00:05:47] on Sutter Home White Zen and it was delicious.
[00:05:50] And it was not until someone, and it was someone who I worked with at a restaurant who was
[00:05:55] a lot older than me and he was a sort of a career server that he opened a bottle of D'Angerville
[00:06:02] Volnay, Chlore durc.
[00:06:06] And unfortunately now that I'm married to a German my French has been just completely
[00:06:11] decimated.
[00:06:15] And that wine just put me in a different space.
[00:06:22] I instantly fell in love and I think it was a 78, gorgeous vintage, and I knew nothing
[00:06:33] about red burgundy at the time and not a bad way to start.
[00:06:37] So you moved to Boston in 91?
[00:06:40] I did and I was fortunate enough to work at a restaurant called Grill 23 in Barr.
[00:06:45] I started off as a server and quickly moved into the wine end of the restaurant and within
[00:06:52] a year of, I literally asked if I could help them.
[00:06:56] I had been handed a glass, I can still see where I was standing, I was walking past table
[00:07:01] 101 going back to make coffees for someone and someone handed me a glass of Penfills
[00:07:07] Grange, at the time it was called Hermitage still, literally made me stop in my tracks.
[00:07:13] It was gorgeous.
[00:07:15] And later that night I was still thinking about it and that's what wine can do to you,
[00:07:19] sometimes you just can't stop drinking about it, thinking about it.
[00:07:23] And I went to our GM and I said, how can I help?
[00:07:28] I want to learn more, I want to touch bottles, I want to read, I want, what can I do?
[00:07:31] And so I started working on the weekends, on Sundays actually when our wine director
[00:07:36] was off.
[00:07:39] And then our wine director, there's a bit of a scandal.
[00:07:45] Oh I didn't know that.
[00:07:46] There's a bit of a scandal and there's a position available and they're like, do you want to
[00:07:56] do this?
[00:07:58] And I said yes and I went home that night and I was sweating bullets because I'm like
[00:08:02] I have no idea what I'm doing.
[00:08:06] To the mid-90s and late 90s, which was a real go time for wine.
[00:08:11] Absolutely.
[00:08:12] You were running this program in Boston, which now looking back a lot of people would say
[00:08:17] that's one of the iconic wine programs of Boston now for several decades.
[00:08:21] And I assume it was successful at that time but it also sounds like you sort of transformed
[00:08:25] it into more revenue.
[00:08:28] I think it went from being a wine list to being a wine program.
[00:08:34] We sold a fair amount of wine when I first started and by the time I ended and left,
[00:08:38] we had doubled what we were selling and our inventory was probably three times what it
[00:08:44] had been in the past.
[00:08:46] But we were building a cellar and we were building the foundation of a great program.
[00:08:51] Grill 23 being the wine director was definitely at the time was the biggest job I'd had and
[00:08:57] the most responsibility.
[00:08:58] I mean I was young at the time.
[00:09:01] You still are.
[00:09:02] I still am.
[00:09:03] Thank you.
[00:09:04] And it was a lot to have on your shoulders.
[00:09:07] A lot was riding on it and I had tremendous support from the restaurant.
[00:09:13] We were one of the biggest wine clients in the city.
[00:09:18] Probably in New England, probably.
[00:09:20] Probably in New England.
[00:09:21] I mean in the 90s when you're selling over $3 million in wine, you definitely.
[00:09:26] So it was a lot to learn.
[00:09:28] I came up in the ranks, I guess, without the background.
[00:09:35] And I like to say at times would I have had that job if it was now without having certain
[00:09:40] credentials that certain people would have that run that program.
[00:09:44] But I was afforded the chance to learn on the job and to taste and to explore and to travel.
[00:09:50] I get this read that like this was your first serious job responsibility and you took it
[00:09:57] pretty seriously.
[00:09:58] I'm an only child and although a big family, an only child with a very young mother.
[00:10:04] So I felt that our roles were reversed in many ways.
[00:10:07] And when your mom's only 16 years older than you, you know, you grow up pretty fast.
[00:10:13] And I did not have the luxury of, you know, we know how some people behave in the industry.
[00:10:20] I didn't have that luxury.
[00:10:22] I was a female and a black female running a fine dining steakhouse, dealing with the
[00:10:29] clientele that we had.
[00:10:33] And we've all heard the adage, you know, as a black person, we have to be twice as good
[00:10:38] and blah, blah, blah.
[00:10:40] And so I don't like being misconstrued and I want to be thought of in a certain way.
[00:10:46] And yeah, I took my job very seriously.
[00:10:53] It was important to me.
[00:10:54] It was important to me as the first to lead the way and to keep the door open for others.
[00:11:02] And the 90s and the early 2000s, it was a dream time.
[00:11:10] It's the bottles that we opened every night and that we got to taste.
[00:11:17] I can still smell and taste some of those to this day.
[00:11:21] I still have amazing friends from that time.
[00:11:24] And we're talking a gazillion years ago that these regular customers of the restaurant
[00:11:29] are now very good friends.
[00:11:33] Wine is lovely now.
[00:11:35] It's wonderful.
[00:11:36] But that was the time, the 90s and the early 2000s.
[00:11:40] That was absolutely a time of explosion and exploration and everyone was interested in
[00:11:45] learning.
[00:11:46] It was great to be on that end and have what I considered probably my favorite wine job
[00:11:51] that I've ever had.
[00:11:53] And I really hear what you're saying there, but I think a lot of people who weren't around
[00:11:56] for it or were hearing that comment for the first time would be like, well, wasn't that
[00:12:00] the Parker era and all the wines were terrible and stuff like that?
[00:12:04] But I think what you're referring to, there was a lot of excitement about wine.
[00:12:11] People were into learning about wine.
[00:12:14] There weren't that many people who knew a lot.
[00:12:18] Wine was cool, which I think in a lot of senses it's challenged to be now.
[00:12:23] And it was still affordable in the sense that if it was your birthday, if it was your anniversary,
[00:12:29] you could push the boat out a little bit, spend more than you normally would and have
[00:12:33] one of the best wines in the world.
[00:12:36] And as a normal person, like you'd done okay in your life, but you're not a millionaire.
[00:12:40] You could still afford Chateau Latour or something for your birthday.
[00:12:44] You could, and you didn't even have to go that far because there are so many great wines
[00:12:48] out there.
[00:12:49] And Parker had his place for so many people.
[00:12:53] I like to think that palates are personal.
[00:12:55] My palate never really aligned with his and that was fine.
[00:12:58] But what he did was he got Americans excited about wine and that was important for us.
[00:13:04] And so yeah, there are people who came in to drink numbers, but then there were also
[00:13:08] people who just wanted to know more.
[00:13:10] What is this thing that everyone's talking about now that I can have with my dinner as
[00:13:16] opposed to having a bourbon?
[00:13:18] I moved to Boston in 95, 96 and you were already well established as one of the top wine people
[00:13:25] in the city at that time.
[00:13:27] I'm not sure that we met right away.
[00:13:29] I've probably met you closer to the later 90s than the mid 90s.
[00:13:33] And I remember that you had a quality that's rare amongst professional wine people, which
[00:13:39] was glee.
[00:13:40] You liked a glass of wine, not in a way of like throwing it back carelessly.
[00:13:46] You're never that person.
[00:13:48] But in terms of enjoyment, you were gleeful about wine.
[00:13:53] And that is something that I've remembered for decades because it's actually pretty rare.
[00:13:59] That's incredibly kind.
[00:14:00] I think that for me, every glass of wine was an opportunity.
[00:14:04] It was an opportunity to learn something.
[00:14:05] It was an opportunity to taste something different, but also to learn about a place and a time.
[00:14:14] But I've never been one to be precious about wine.
[00:14:17] I think that there's something for everyone.
[00:14:22] Palates are personal, but it should be an ingredient on everyone's table.
[00:14:27] And that's how I've lived my life.
[00:14:29] It's not something I overly consumed because in the end it is wine and it is alcohol, but
[00:14:34] I do enjoy a glass of wine and I enjoy learning as much as possible and also sharing the knowledge.
[00:14:41] So I just want to set the stage a little bit because not everyone listening to this interview
[00:14:46] is going to have this experience that I had of meeting you at that time and understanding
[00:14:51] the context.
[00:14:52] But that restaurant could have been a machine.
[00:14:56] The revenue was high.
[00:14:58] It was a huge room, always busy.
[00:15:01] It was a grill focus.
[00:15:03] It was something that was understandable to a wide range of customers.
[00:15:06] You didn't have to be a weird foodie really into something to understand it.
[00:15:11] It was considered a very high quality steak in an era where there weren't that many steakhouses,
[00:15:17] which is actually hard to remember now, but at one time there were fewer.
[00:15:20] And it was very wine friendly food.
[00:15:23] And it was the sort of place where you went to buy a bottle of wine or scotch.
[00:15:29] And when you add all that up, especially when you add up the economic period, which was
[00:15:33] before September 11th and internet stocks were through the roof and people had a lot
[00:15:38] of money off and that they weren't expecting to have and things were going pretty well
[00:15:42] and there was a lot of things that have since changed.
[00:15:47] That place could have just been a slash and grab cash machine.
[00:15:52] And the reason I say this is because you brought a real human face to that wine program.
[00:15:57] You were very welcoming.
[00:15:59] And a lot of times if you add up the factors we just spoke about, that's not what ends
[00:16:05] up happening.
[00:16:06] Like you go and the person who's running the program is kind of burnt out and they're like,
[00:16:11] oh, all these people come in, they all want something.
[00:16:14] And I work all the time.
[00:16:17] It's the human condition.
[00:16:18] It's a hard job.
[00:16:19] You're always on your feet.
[00:16:21] We all get it.
[00:16:22] We've all seen it.
[00:16:23] I was just really struck as a young person who was somewhat new into wine, how welcoming
[00:16:29] you were about it.
[00:16:31] And again, how gleeful you were.
[00:16:34] I felt incredibly fortunate to have that job, to be able to do something I love and get
[00:16:38] paid for it and to do it in a place that afforded me the opportunity to taste pretty much anything
[00:16:48] and to go to so many places.
[00:16:50] I also love connecting with people.
[00:16:54] And truth be told, if I wasn't welcoming, I would be haunted by my great-grandmother
[00:17:01] because it was something she stressed all the time.
[00:17:05] She was the queen of adding a little bit more water to the soup if someone popped over unannounced.
[00:17:10] And I love that.
[00:17:12] I do love being with people and making them feel good.
[00:17:20] So being able to do that in a restaurant and being able to make wine accessible to people
[00:17:24] who might feel a little bit afraid, I was always on a path to help democratize wine.
[00:17:33] And I think just me being myself, although being Black is not remarkable, I was definitely
[00:17:39] doing my job and I was doing it with two amazing women as my assistants.
[00:17:45] Our job was to make you feel good when you walked in that restaurant because what's the
[00:17:50] point?
[00:17:51] And to match palettes and pocketbooks was incredibly important.
[00:17:57] And to push people a little bit, and it's not out of your comfort zone, but you like
[00:18:02] this, we'll give you this, but we're going to give you this as well, and let's keep moving.
[00:18:08] This whole education was just so important.
[00:18:11] The more people drinking wine, the better.
[00:18:14] What I encounter a lot is people who are attracted to the wine lifestyle or the perks of the
[00:18:19] wine life.
[00:18:20] I mean, obviously those are all great and I'm sure you like your share of those things
[00:18:25] too.
[00:18:26] But what I liked about you, and I think I still see this in you, although we don't talk every
[00:18:32] day, you really like wine.
[00:18:35] It's actually a somewhat rare trait in the business.
[00:18:38] I'm not sure why, but often it is.
[00:18:41] And I'm making a point of remarking on it because it is apparent being with you that
[00:18:47] you really like wine, like the beverage wine, like drinking it.
[00:18:50] How can you not?
[00:18:51] I mean, yes, it's an agricultural product and the challenges that these winemakers face
[00:18:57] every year and that they've extended the grace to us by putting this in a bottle and it's
[00:19:03] delicious.
[00:19:04] How can you not love this and not want to share it?
[00:19:08] I mean, wine, of course you can collect it and it can stay in your cellar, but how much
[00:19:13] fun is it to actually share it with people?
[00:19:15] And I felt like I had this huge cellar working at the grill and I wanted to share these items
[00:19:20] with the majority of the people.
[00:19:22] There are some people, not necessarily.
[00:19:24] I'm kind of joking, but not really.
[00:19:33] I think wine for so many people is a discomfort and I didn't want that.
[00:19:40] I wanted people to feel that they could make choices.
[00:19:43] If you know what a hot dog tastes like, you can figure out what this Cabernet, this Burgundy,
[00:19:47] this whatever it is.
[00:19:49] And if you say you don't like Chardonnay, well, let's talk about Champagne.
[00:19:52] Let's talk about white Burgundy.
[00:19:53] There are so many different styles and so wine's not just one thing.
[00:19:59] You can find your place in it.
[00:20:00] And so that's something I was trying to do because I had found my place in it and I wanted
[00:20:05] other people to discover it as well.
[00:20:07] You already sort of touched on this, but it's worth remarking on that you built a team.
[00:20:12] So that was very rare for the time.
[00:20:15] You started as a one person sommelier operation in a huge restaurant.
[00:20:19] And in most instances, especially in the 90s, what that meant was you would end your career
[00:20:23] as a one person sommelier team in a huge restaurant, frazzled perhaps, and just trying to keep up
[00:20:29] with the sales because sales were booming at that time.
[00:20:32] And you added two female team members who are both really strong in their own right.
[00:20:38] And now when we think of wine as a lot of bros, you know, a lot of white guys who dress
[00:20:45] similar and have a certain kind of way, you know, that stands out more to me than it actually
[00:20:53] did at the time.
[00:20:54] Like at the time, it didn't seem like this is so weird, maybe because it was working.
[00:20:59] Right.
[00:21:00] Well, it's interesting that you say that because I think that Ken Hemel, who is the main owner
[00:21:06] of Grill 23 and also Per Se, he saw the direction that wine was going and he was committed to
[00:21:13] supporting this program.
[00:21:15] And I remember, God, the America's Cup or something was in town and I was by myself
[00:21:20] on the floor.
[00:21:22] And it was a $50,000 wine night.
[00:21:25] And I was doing it in heels running around the dining room and nothing has ever seemed
[00:21:30] busier to be.
[00:21:31] So when people say you're so cool and collected under pressure, it's like, yeah, you don't
[00:21:35] know that night that I experienced.
[00:21:38] And we're like, we need to build this up.
[00:21:40] But I wanted it to be a team, a team that fit with me and fit with the program and my direction
[00:21:47] that I was sending it.
[00:21:48] And so, yes, we were a team of women.
[00:21:52] And Natalie Vache, who is now at Peter Michael, was from Bordeaux.
[00:21:58] And then there's Dini Rao from Ohio, but her grandparents are from India.
[00:22:02] And so we were these three women running this show, building it and killing it, I think,
[00:22:11] in the 90s and the 2000s.
[00:22:12] And when I left, Natalie took over and Dini went off to HBS.
[00:22:17] And it was a time that I haven't experienced since where all the things were working as
[00:22:27] a team of women doing our jobs, not as women, but as a team with the philosophy that we
[00:22:35] thought actually worked.
[00:22:40] People loved coming to the restaurant.
[00:22:42] And you matched with certain people, and there were people who would ask for Nat, and there
[00:22:47] were people who would ask for Dini.
[00:22:50] But it was a good team.
[00:22:52] And Boston had not seen anything like that before, especially when you have two women
[00:22:56] of color and an immigrant.
[00:22:59] So we were pretty powerful, and not in that sort of icky kind of way of being powerful,
[00:23:04] but we were something to be reckoned with.
[00:23:06] We were a good time.
[00:23:08] I mean, restaurants, theater, but it seemed to me like you three were friends, like that
[00:23:12] you got along.
[00:23:13] We got along.
[00:23:15] Inventory was always fun.
[00:23:17] I've been gone from the grill for a while, so I can say that we did inventory while drinking
[00:23:21] half bottles of Biacarte Salmon Rose with straws.
[00:23:27] We signed it off at the end.
[00:23:30] But there are days that we would do silly things.
[00:23:34] We would get into our Charlie's Angels pose before we started the shift, and like, let's
[00:23:38] go.
[00:23:39] Let's go do this.
[00:23:40] Like, how many decanters do we have clean tonight?
[00:23:42] Because this is going to be a good night.
[00:23:44] So yeah, we are friends, and we remain friends.
[00:23:49] These days, often I hear from people who run programs for restaurant groups is, how do you
[00:23:54] find good people?
[00:23:56] It comes up a lot, actually.
[00:23:58] And the answers to that ostensibly would be more obvious today than they were in the 90s,
[00:24:03] because there's more people who are trained formally in wine now than there were at that
[00:24:07] time.
[00:24:09] So my question to you, knowing that this is such a primal question that comes up all
[00:24:15] the time of, how do you find good people?
[00:24:17] It's basically what wine directors talk about more than they even talk about wine, is how
[00:24:23] did you find those people?
[00:24:25] What were the choices involved in making that happen?
[00:24:27] Yeah, I think because Nathalie being a concierge, I saw her.
[00:24:32] They would come to the restaurant, and I loved her personality.
[00:24:35] I'll be very honest, when I would go out anywhere, and if I met someone, and I thought they were
[00:24:40] amazing, whether they were working at a clothing store or, you know, I just, there are qualities
[00:24:45] that you can't teach, other things you can.
[00:24:49] And so being on the lookout and not being so rigid in, you know, the requirements that
[00:24:56] you need to be able to do this or have had done this or whatever it is, because you're
[00:25:01] eliminating people that you might miss out on.
[00:25:06] Not everyone has the same background.
[00:25:08] For example, me, you know, I don't have the credentials that some of the current wine
[00:25:12] directors have, but I was really good at my job.
[00:25:15] I sold a lot of wine.
[00:25:17] So just because you don't have certain things doesn't mean that you should not be a part
[00:25:22] of an industry.
[00:25:23] And so to bring people in that are coming at it from a different perspective, I think
[00:25:28] is really helpful.
[00:25:29] It's not only helpful for the industry, it's helpful for the consumers because they can
[00:25:34] actually see themselves in those people as well.
[00:25:38] And Dini was introduced to me by friends from Lower Falls Wine Company.
[00:25:42] She had been working with them.
[00:25:44] And I just remember Philip saying, I have this amazing woman working with me and she's
[00:25:47] looking to explore something else.
[00:25:49] Would you speak with her?
[00:25:50] I'm like, absolutely.
[00:25:52] And I met her and I loved her.
[00:25:54] And the next day she came and brought me cookies.
[00:25:55] And I'm like, I love you even more.
[00:25:58] So it's not easy to find people if you're limiting yourself to those who you would consider.
[00:26:10] I think there are lots of skills that are transferable.
[00:26:13] And I think restaurant people have amazing skills.
[00:26:15] You can move into so many different industries, but it's kindness, honestly, and being hospitable.
[00:26:22] And you can teach certain things.
[00:26:25] There are things you can't.
[00:26:26] So being on the lookout for those things, those values that are important.
[00:26:30] What are you proud of from that period of your life?
[00:26:32] What do you think you really got right at that time?
[00:26:35] What do you think of as personal successes?
[00:26:38] What I think I got right is the connections I made.
[00:26:44] And I don't mean that in a transactional way, but the community I built and that I continue
[00:26:51] to nurture was huge for me.
[00:26:55] My love of wine and continuing to still love it.
[00:26:58] There are certain times, like in December when you're selling $500,000 in that period,
[00:27:03] you don't want to really touch a bottle, but I always would come back to it after.
[00:27:07] But my success was as a shy person.
[00:27:16] My husband likes to say this about me that I don't like to be stared at, but I hate to
[00:27:20] be ignored.
[00:27:22] And Grill 23 allowed me to be on the wine stage in a way that felt really comfortable
[00:27:27] and felt good.
[00:27:30] Being able to sell a great wine and being given a free reign to build a list that still exists
[00:27:39] to this day, I'm incredibly proud of it.
[00:27:42] It does seem like you have a lot of long-term friends.
[00:27:46] You're one of those people that has a handful of multi-decade friendships that you keep
[00:27:52] pretty close.
[00:27:53] Is that fair to say?
[00:27:54] Absolutely.
[00:27:55] When I go to wine country in California, I have to make sure I make certain stops.
[00:28:02] My friends are all over the place.
[00:28:03] And for me as an only child, I created my siblings and I put a lot of effort into taking
[00:28:11] care of people.
[00:28:13] My grandmother used to say, make a friend with someone who doesn't have one.
[00:28:18] And I know these things are cliches, but they are just so fricking true.
[00:28:22] And I tell my kids that as well.
[00:28:24] There are people you don't know what's going on in their lives.
[00:28:28] Be kind.
[00:28:29] That's the least you can do.
[00:28:32] And it goes so far.
[00:28:33] And so yeah, I like to take care of people, but I also like interesting people.
[00:28:39] And I like people who have great things to talk about or people who are just silly.
[00:28:45] Just like different nights, different wines, different nights, different people.
[00:28:47] It's like, what do you want?
[00:28:49] Wine connects people in so many ways.
[00:28:52] And I do really love that part.
[00:28:54] I love the connections that form over wine.
[00:28:57] I love the portion.
[00:28:59] The fact that I have friends that I had over 20 years ago still to this day because of
[00:29:05] wine makes me incredibly fortunate and happy.
[00:29:09] And it feels good.
[00:29:11] It's been a really good wine life.
[00:29:12] It really has.
[00:29:15] Coming up in this interview, some big changes.
[00:29:20] I was doing inventory.
[00:29:21] Actually, I'll never forget that day when I get this call.
[00:29:26] That's after the break.
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[00:31:08] Now talking to you here, what I really realize is how often intertwined the beverage is with
[00:31:13] the person behind it for you.
[00:31:16] You know, of course you remember wines, right?
[00:31:18] You always remember what you're drinking, but it usually takes second fiddle when you're
[00:31:22] with a great group of people.
[00:31:24] Because at the end of the day, it's not about the meal or the food, it's about the interactions.
[00:31:28] And I do love those interactions.
[00:31:29] I am a very social person, although shy.
[00:31:32] I love those connections.
[00:31:35] So yes, I do like to drink wine.
[00:31:37] I still like to drink wine.
[00:31:39] But I like to connect with people.
[00:31:43] And that truly is one of my greatest gifts from the grill, is the people I continue to
[00:31:49] know and to love and to care about.
[00:31:53] And the fact that the grill is still so incredibly kind to me, although I've been gone almost
[00:31:58] 20 years.
[00:32:01] And I just took my son there for his 19th birthday with my family and just the level
[00:32:07] of hospitality and to see friends that are still working there, which was really great.
[00:32:13] But the grill is, it will be here forever.
[00:32:16] It has to be.
[00:32:17] It's had a pretty good run so far.
[00:32:19] A lot of good people.
[00:32:20] You know, Kat, who's another big wine personality in Boston, worked there for a while.
[00:32:25] Kat's a great friend and she was one of the most important people for me when I started
[00:32:30] in the industry.
[00:32:31] And still, to this day, I bounce ideas off of Kat all the time.
[00:32:36] She could not have been more welcoming.
[00:32:38] And Kat is the ultimate educator.
[00:32:42] Her philosophy, the way she trained her staff, said it was better for her to have 10 psalms
[00:32:46] on the floor than just for it to be her.
[00:32:49] And the level of knowledge that she imparted on everyone.
[00:32:52] I would call her in the middle of service sometimes, especially when I was really new.
[00:32:57] And she could have not been, you know, and I think that's one thing for me, the generosity
[00:33:02] that was shown to me, of course I have to show it to other people.
[00:33:07] It made me feel stronger and that I could do this job without a problem.
[00:33:12] Because it took me a while to really know.
[00:33:16] I felt there was, you know, people talk about imposter syndrome now.
[00:33:20] And it's like, who is this little girl from the west side of Chicago, you know, opening
[00:33:27] this bottle of Le Pen or opening this 82 Chevre Blanc?
[00:33:31] Like, who is she to tell you about this?
[00:33:34] And there are nights she just felt like, oh my good God.
[00:33:37] But then wine's for everyone.
[00:33:41] It's interesting because there were, for a smaller city and a smaller wine community,
[00:33:47] there were some strong female wine personalities in Boston.
[00:33:51] At least at that time, Kat, yourself, there was Jeannie Rogers who was not that far away.
[00:33:57] And then there were some strong personalities who were female in the restaurant world,
[00:34:01] like Lydia Shire and Jodi Adams and Estee Benson.
[00:34:05] There was a lot of strong women around, Michaela.
[00:34:08] Yeah.
[00:34:10] And there still is.
[00:34:13] And well, I think women have better palates.
[00:34:15] I mean, you can fight me for that if you want.
[00:34:18] And I think the way we approached wine was just different.
[00:34:23] And it was probably a little bit more welcoming in different ways.
[00:34:27] But I don't know if that existed outside of Boston.
[00:34:33] I don't recall it being that way when I would go to other cities.
[00:34:36] It was usually much more male-dominated.
[00:34:40] And that wasn't the case for Boston at that time.
[00:34:43] Why do you think that might have been?
[00:34:45] I think women sort of made space for themselves.
[00:34:51] Kat started at the grill, but then she went out to do something else.
[00:34:55] And she created, I don't know exactly how to say it, a persona.
[00:35:00] She created this thing which could only be done the way Kat did it because it made sense
[00:35:07] for her.
[00:35:09] And then here I was, a fish out of water.
[00:35:11] I come from a family that didn't drink.
[00:35:13] I was learning on the job.
[00:35:15] And so I made it my own.
[00:35:17] And Jeannie, brilliant, taught herself Italian so that she could import the wines that she
[00:35:23] wanted to serve at her restaurants.
[00:35:25] So I think we made space for ourselves in different ways.
[00:35:30] And then we were supportive of each other.
[00:35:33] Was it really challenging for you to find space like that?
[00:35:36] Well, your listeners can't see my face, but I am a black woman.
[00:35:40] And there are assumptions that were constantly being made about me.
[00:35:46] But I didn't care.
[00:35:48] I never considered myself a black wine professional.
[00:35:52] I considered myself a wine professional.
[00:35:54] And yes, I am a black woman.
[00:35:57] If you allow me to do my job without putting me in a box, thank you.
[00:36:05] But I wouldn't say it's tough because I am very sure of myself and I'm very sure of
[00:36:10] who I am.
[00:36:11] And my great grandmother used to say to me, walk as if you've got someplace to go.
[00:36:16] I'm fairly tall, not as tall as you.
[00:36:18] But I always have my head up high and I am comfortable in my knowledge.
[00:36:23] And that you might know more than I do.
[00:36:26] And I'm not going to even challenge you on that.
[00:36:28] But let's talk.
[00:36:29] Let's come to a meeting somewhere.
[00:36:33] But there are times where people would say horrible things and you wouldn't expect it.
[00:36:37] But guess what?
[00:36:38] My name is on the bottom of that wine list.
[00:36:41] Do you want the good wine glasses or not?
[00:36:48] Yeah, it was an interesting time.
[00:36:50] But then I also, I think looking back more so than living it, I saw the challenges.
[00:36:58] But I was just so busy.
[00:36:59] I was just so incredibly busy that I didn't have time to really worry about it.
[00:37:04] In August 2001, your grandmother passed away.
[00:37:09] Oh yeah.
[00:37:12] How did that affect you at the time?
[00:37:13] Oh wow.
[00:37:16] I was doing inventory.
[00:37:17] Actually, I'll never forget that day when I get this call.
[00:37:21] Inventory was a three-day process and it was the 31st of August and you get this call and
[00:37:26] I can see where I was standing and it was devastating.
[00:37:31] It was absolutely devastating.
[00:37:32] This is a woman who helped raise me.
[00:37:34] This is a woman whose stories I still hear.
[00:37:42] It was, it's still to this day tough.
[00:37:47] I would love for my grandmother to have met my children.
[00:37:50] She didn't get to do that.
[00:37:51] She didn't meet my husband, which was amazing and he loved her.
[00:37:56] But yeah, that was definitely tough and it only became harder because I came back to
[00:38:08] the restaurant September 10th.
[00:38:15] A winemaker was in that evening because we were hosting a huge industry tasting of like
[00:38:20] 300 people the next day.
[00:38:23] Everyone was in New York at the time for the New York experience or something like that.
[00:38:26] Then they were coming to my restaurant for a huge tasting.
[00:38:33] And the next day was actually September 11th.
[00:38:37] I just remember being there and arriving just as towers are falling and then trying to jump
[00:38:45] into mode of canceling everything.
[00:38:47] The winemakers couldn't get out of New York.
[00:38:48] There's no travel.
[00:38:52] I was numb for my grandmother and then really numb for 9-11.
[00:38:59] So it was a hard time.
[00:39:01] And they will be forever linked in many, many ways.
[00:39:05] Within a year, you were no longer a girl 23 and you were on the route to being a parent
[00:39:13] of two children.
[00:39:14] 9-11 affected us in many ways.
[00:39:18] One of our managers lost her brother-in-law.
[00:39:22] We lost a number of customers as well.
[00:39:28] They're in the financial industry.
[00:39:30] And so we felt that heartbreak that went beyond just being an American.
[00:39:37] We knew people and that really did hurt.
[00:39:39] So not only was I raw from losing my grandmother, that hurt in so many different ways.
[00:39:47] What was great about the grill was that people felt at home there and people still came.
[00:39:53] And they came because it felt comfortable.
[00:39:58] And we were always happy to see people.
[00:39:59] It was always good to see someone, especially our New York clients, come in because we're
[00:40:04] like, yeah, you're still here.
[00:40:06] And so are we.
[00:40:07] I think losing my grandmother, having this huge event happen, I knew that it was time
[00:40:19] for me to do something different.
[00:40:22] I have an amazing husband.
[00:40:24] We knew we wanted children.
[00:40:26] I grew up in a house where there was someone always at my house.
[00:40:29] I'd come home from school, my great-grandmother was there, my grandmother was there.
[00:40:32] It was amazing.
[00:40:34] And I wanted to give that to my children.
[00:40:36] I actually got, I was pregnant while I was still working at the grill, which was, you
[00:40:41] know, at times quite difficult because my sense of smell was so heightened that things
[00:40:45] would make me either think, oh, that smells amazing or we cannot have that on the list.
[00:40:52] Please don't open that bottle around me.
[00:40:55] But it put things in perspective for me pretty quickly and what I wanted.
[00:41:00] And I love the restaurant industry.
[00:41:02] I really do.
[00:41:03] Unfortunately, you're working while other people are playing and you miss out on a lot
[00:41:06] of things.
[00:41:07] You miss out on birthdays, you miss out on holidays, and you miss out on family dinner.
[00:41:12] And we had family dinner every night growing up together.
[00:41:16] And I do that with my children.
[00:41:19] Sunday through Thursday, we sat down at the table together and that was so important for
[00:41:24] me to be present for my kids in a certain way.
[00:41:28] But I stepped away and it was hard because I had an amazing job that I loved and I just
[00:41:35] remember, you know, changing my son's diaper.
[00:41:39] He's now 19 and like going through the cruise of Beaujolais or talking about Burgundy villages
[00:41:46] or whatever.
[00:41:47] Like here I am talking to this child whose diaper I'm changing, but I wanted to stay
[00:41:52] in the know and I wanted to stay current and not that I can say that I stayed current-current
[00:41:59] because it's different.
[00:42:01] But it was an interesting transition for me to go from being one of the top Psalms
[00:42:07] in Boston, having people ask for me, is Alicia in tonight?
[00:42:14] Can Alicia suggest a bottle?
[00:42:16] Or just being a part of something and working at Grill 23, I felt like I was on the pulse
[00:42:23] of the city.
[00:42:24] Like everyone came to that restaurant.
[00:42:27] You felt like you knew what was going on and I really felt connected to the city.
[00:42:32] And I missed that when I started chasing around the little boy and then my daughter.
[00:42:39] But whereas Grill 23 was one of the proudest moments in things that I've created, my kids
[00:42:46] outshines the restaurant hands down.
[00:42:49] And just as important as it was for me to create a wine list that everyone felt that
[00:42:54] they could be a part of or a wine program that people felt that I listened to them
[00:42:59] and I might've challenged them a little bit, pushed them a little bit further out of their
[00:43:03] comfort zone, but happy to go back if you need to do that.
[00:43:05] And I'm even happy to pay for that bottle that you might not have liked as much.
[00:43:09] It was also important for me to raise amazing children.
[00:43:14] Amazing in the sense that I needed them to be kind and curious and I wanted to give them
[00:43:20] my time just as I gave people my time at the table.
[00:43:23] I gave my children all of my time.
[00:43:26] Definitely, I wanted to be there for them and I wanted to just set a foundation as I
[00:43:32] built a foundation for the Grill 23, their wine program.
[00:43:35] I wanted to secure my children's foundation so that they can do and be whatever they
[00:43:41] want it. And it always, it does come back to time, kindness, joy.
[00:43:55] You know, we had dance parties at Grill 23 after hours.
[00:43:59] We have dance parties at my house.
[00:44:02] Do you regret the fact that it didn't seem possible to be present for your kids and keep
[00:44:08] the restaurant job?
[00:44:09] Yeah, it makes me really sad, actually.
[00:44:12] I look at some of my female friends in the industry and they are not, they don't have
[00:44:17] children. You know, it's hard.
[00:44:20] It's hard to and you can definitely do it, but it depends on how you want to show up.
[00:44:26] And I was also an older parent by the time I left.
[00:44:30] I was in my 30s when I had my children.
[00:44:33] And so I wanted to be there.
[00:44:35] And I had a husband who also traveled.
[00:44:36] So it was important for me that there was one parent who was going to be there
[00:44:40] consistently. And I had the luxury of doing that, of stepping back.
[00:44:44] But restaurant industry is hard.
[00:44:47] I was not burned out, but by the end of the night I was exhausted.
[00:44:50] And so I didn't know, especially in the restaurant that I worked in, how I was going
[00:44:54] to get up in the morning and take care of my kids.
[00:44:56] I just didn't know how it was going to be conducive to raising my family and being the
[00:45:01] type of mom that I wanted to be.
[00:45:03] So I made the difficult choice of, you know, turning in my corkscrew and being at home
[00:45:14] with my kids. And your kids are thankless as well, you know?
[00:45:20] And it's only now that my son is at college that he says things that I'm like, oh, you
[00:45:25] were listening or oh, you do appreciate me because this was just their life.
[00:45:29] How do they know?
[00:45:31] The sacrifices that parents make for them and how you're always thinking about your
[00:45:36] children. It's a thankless job in so many ways.
[00:45:41] And I would do it again and again.
[00:45:44] It was non-negotiable for me.
[00:45:47] You got really serious about your kids' education.
[00:45:51] Absolutely. And just like with Wine Unify, why do we pay for people's WCET?
[00:45:57] It's because education is important, right?
[00:45:59] And for me, it's what got me to wine, you know, being able to.
[00:46:08] I love my family.
[00:46:13] They are a much better time than I am.
[00:46:16] They are a great group of people and they are so much fun.
[00:46:20] And but graduating from high school, going on to higher education, it opened doors for
[00:46:28] me that I would not have had.
[00:46:30] So education is incredibly important to me.
[00:46:35] You know, I'm happy for them.
[00:46:37] I'm happy for them. I wanted to make it easier.
[00:46:40] I mean, I worked in restaurants because I had to supplement my education.
[00:46:44] And there are times that, you know, the grit that I developed going through the job
[00:46:50] that I had going through trying to, you know.
[00:46:57] Educate myself and find the place that I fit in.
[00:47:01] There's a fine line.
[00:47:01] It's like, where do you where do you fit in?
[00:47:04] And I didn't want them to have to do that.
[00:47:08] And so, yeah, they've had great educations.
[00:47:12] And.
[00:47:14] I love that they love to learn.
[00:47:16] Grill 23 was a place where upper middle class and fairly wealthy people came.
[00:47:22] Often it was a heavy male customer base and it was pretty white, frankly, amongst the
[00:47:28] clientele, at least the grill 23 that I remember going to a few times.
[00:47:33] And you navigated that with real aplomb, I thought.
[00:47:38] And you built a all female multiracial staff for the wine service.
[00:47:44] And, you know, you get to an exclusive independent school for your child.
[00:47:50] Again, it's mostly white.
[00:47:52] Again, it's mostly upper middle class and you get involved in diversity, equity and
[00:47:56] inclusion.
[00:47:58] And how did that come about and how did it affect you?
[00:48:02] Well, it came about because at the time I was the president of the PA.
[00:48:07] And I have often been in white spaces and I fit and belong because I think I do no
[00:48:18] matter where I'm at, you know, and.
[00:48:22] Just being in certain situations where there are parents who didn't feel as if they
[00:48:26] belonged or if they could have a real voice because they wanted to be careful not to
[00:48:30] complain about something because whether their child was a white person or a black
[00:48:35] person, they wanted to be able to say something because whether their child was there
[00:48:40] with the scholarship, I mean, the school was a it's need blind.
[00:48:44] So if you got in.
[00:48:46] If you couldn't afford it, tuition was paid for.
[00:48:50] And there are just people who just didn't know if they could be as vocal as they
[00:48:54] wanted to be about certain things, if they could talk about the support that they
[00:48:58] thought that their sons needed.
[00:49:02] Who else is going to say this if not me?
[00:49:05] You know, so I had a meeting with someone at school and he's like, well, let's
[00:49:10] explore this.
[00:49:12] Can you put together a task force?
[00:49:14] Which we did.
[00:49:16] And it was a very interesting time because we're working on this very sensitive topic.
[00:49:27] And then George Floyd and Breonna Taylor happened.
[00:49:31] And how the boys responded to that period with their Instagram feed was what I was
[00:49:39] trying to avoid.
[00:49:41] And there was some discontent and then you air your dirty laundry and we just needed
[00:49:50] more time because I think we would have gotten there without this, but the sped it
[00:49:53] up and then even better instead of the parents doing this, the boys took over and
[00:49:59] they brought about some significant change, which is amazing.
[00:50:04] What did that feel like?
[00:50:06] Yeah, I mean, I honestly think we can be better when we are doing this together.
[00:50:14] That there's a role for everyone and there's a place for everyone.
[00:50:21] And the richness that you get from having a diverse group of people talking at that
[00:50:27] proverbial table, it's only going to enrich your life.
[00:50:31] You know, it's only going to enrich your program, your business, whatever it is.
[00:50:36] And so for me, it was important.
[00:50:39] Here I was after six years at this school that I wanted to leave it in a place a bit
[00:50:51] better than when we arrived.
[00:50:53] And because I am the mother of interracial children, because I have been in white
[00:50:59] spaces, I was fine.
[00:51:02] There are people who were not.
[00:51:04] And if I'm the president of the PA, I want to make sure that everyone feels welcomed.
[00:51:09] You know, to no fault of their own, everyone just needs to learn.
[00:51:14] It goes beyond being, I'm not this, but you have to actually actively work to improve
[00:51:23] on certain things, to listen to people that are not yourselves.
[00:51:29] You might think everything's okay, but you need to talk to other people.
[00:51:32] You need to hear other voices.
[00:51:34] And so for me, it was incredibly powerful and hard.
[00:51:40] And, and at times, you know what I'm a volunteer, you can't fire me.
[00:51:52] But it was good.
[00:51:53] I felt like it's an amazing school, but it only has gotten better because of the new
[00:51:59] processes they've put in place, the new people that have been hired.
[00:52:04] And I think the kids are benefiting as well.
[00:52:06] So when people put in new processes, what's important there?
[00:52:11] What are the fundamentals that work?
[00:52:14] Yeah.
[00:52:15] The fundamentals of work is you need to listen.
[00:52:18] So incredibly important.
[00:52:19] And the people who are making decisions cannot just be you.
[00:52:23] Like you need to have someone who's helping you.
[00:52:25] You can always tell when someone has, you know, whether it's a fashion brand or a
[00:52:30] wine company or whomever it is, they've, they weren't talking to the appropriate
[00:52:34] people and they made major mistakes.
[00:52:37] You know, it only made it worse.
[00:52:39] So I think being open-minded, shutting your mouth, bringing in other voices and
[00:52:47] how can we make this better?
[00:52:49] How can we make it better for other people?
[00:52:50] How can we make it better for our company?
[00:52:52] And what can I do to learn?
[00:52:54] You know I think that's a big takeaway.
[00:52:59] And also how do you support the people that you bring on?
[00:53:03] You don't want to just have someone by themselves and you think they're going to
[00:53:08] fix their problem or you don't want to hire from within the only black person on
[00:53:11] staff because you think that they can also do this job at your wine company.
[00:53:17] That does them a huge disservice.
[00:53:20] They need the support and they may not be good at that thing.
[00:53:23] They may be living their truths, but they may not be good at a thing you want them
[00:53:26] to do, but you just pick them because they are of color.
[00:53:29] I think it's really important to know, to listen to people and to know what you
[00:53:34] need and to do it and be committed to it.
[00:53:37] And don't just, you know, there should be no brownwashing.
[00:53:41] If you're going to do it, do it and do it right and be consistent.
[00:53:47] It's not an option and you just don't, oh, we did it for a while and
[00:53:51] now we're going to move on.
[00:53:52] No, it has become a thread within your culture or it's never been.
[00:53:58] It's never going to work.
[00:54:00] One thing you've mentioned to me before is that cohorts work and
[00:54:03] individuals find more difficulty.
[00:54:06] So if you have one person coming in without a group of people around them,
[00:54:12] that lack of the group is actually a key detriment to that one person's success.
[00:54:19] It can be really hard.
[00:54:20] I mean, some people are able to survive, you know, but you don't want to be that
[00:54:24] black girl or that one, whatever it is.
[00:54:28] With Wine Unify, we work in cohorts.
[00:54:30] They work together, you know, they have individual mentors, but they also, we
[00:54:36] also always do like four group sessions so that people are together and they've
[00:54:41] created their own community, which is great.
[00:54:44] These people are now friends and you feel supported.
[00:54:48] If you have a question, there's more people to rely on.
[00:54:52] Or if you're just not sure about something, more voices are just so important.
[00:54:58] And I think that's the most important thing.
[00:55:01] It's one thing to give someone a scholarship and then leave them on their own.
[00:55:05] It's another thing to have them feel that they really do belong.
[00:55:08] And so we are giving them all the things they need.
[00:55:10] We're giving them the mentorship.
[00:55:12] We're giving them the dollars that they need to buy the wines to study.
[00:55:16] So you're giving them the resources because you have told them that they
[00:55:21] belong here and that you want them here.
[00:55:22] And by doing all those things, we've shown them that we want them here.
[00:55:26] We want them to succeed.
[00:55:28] And I mean, we base our cohorts on something.
[00:55:32] I'm a part of Posse Foundation and I've mentioned this to you before, but so
[00:55:36] incredibly powerful.
[00:55:37] There's a gentleman, first generation to go to college and he dropped out.
[00:55:41] And the founder of Posse was speaking to him and he had sent her, if I'd had my
[00:55:46] Posse, I would have done better.
[00:55:48] And so the Posse Foundation sends a cohort of 10 to Posse schools and they're
[00:55:54] working together.
[00:55:55] And there's someone on the other end who's supporting these kids, which is so
[00:55:59] incredibly important because you're only going to be stronger.
[00:56:02] And you think about people who also are given these amazing scholarships to
[00:56:08] colleges and they go to a job and they're by themselves.
[00:56:13] And how well are they going to do?
[00:56:15] I think there's something to be said about how you support people and how you
[00:56:20] show them that they belong and that you want them.
[00:56:23] The wine world and who is in it have both changed since the 1990s.
[00:56:29] As the discussion continues, Alicia wonders if some of those changes have
[00:56:33] contributed to exclusion.
[00:56:37] I was not a credentialed Psalm.
[00:56:39] I taught myself and would I have the job now that I had then?
[00:56:46] I doubt it.
[00:56:48] We'll return after the break.
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[00:57:58] To make a connection that we haven't made explicit later in your life, you went back
[00:58:03] and you worked as you do now in the wine and beverage space, working on mentorship
[00:58:10] for a broader group of people than you feel is included typically.
[00:58:15] Yes.
[00:58:16] For wine unified, they call me mama ATF, you know, Alicia towns, Franken.
[00:58:20] And it's a thread of taking care of people and making sure they have what
[00:58:25] they need in order to succeed, whether it's my restaurant, it's my
[00:58:28] children or it's this group.
[00:58:30] And I think for people to see that there is a group that's doing what they want
[00:58:38] to do, or that there's a group that's doing something they didn't even know
[00:58:41] was possible is so incredibly important.
[00:58:44] And our mentors are just some of the best industry people, people that I've
[00:58:47] known for a long time and people I'm just getting to know as well.
[00:58:51] I don't know a lot of other businesses.
[00:58:53] I'm sure they exist, but where people in their twenties are controlling
[00:58:58] multimillion dollar budgets and revenue.
[00:59:01] It's unusual, right?
[00:59:03] Definitely.
[00:59:04] And yeah, I was trusted.
[00:59:08] It was a serious restaurant.
[00:59:10] It was the end of restaurant was over $15 million a year.
[00:59:13] Um, we had a controller.
[00:59:15] I learned budgets.
[00:59:16] I learned spreadsheets.
[00:59:17] I learned how to do all the things.
[00:59:20] It's not just about opening bottles of wine.
[00:59:24] I was running a business within a business, and it was important that I
[00:59:27] learned the, the less sexier things about running a wine program.
[00:59:32] Oh, a hundred percent.
[00:59:33] But really what I mean, transcending the two of us who were lucky enough to have
[00:59:38] this experience is that that's the route to the middle class and the service
[00:59:42] economy.
[00:59:44] And so if this is the major ladder that people can take to move from one
[00:59:49] circumstance, you know, just to put a point on it, I grew up in a trailer park.
[00:59:53] We were extraordinarily poor.
[00:59:55] I kept my baseball cards in the welfare cheese box that we were used for
[00:59:59] recycling.
[01:00:00] And then later you can be drinking 59 Petrus, you can be meeting the people who
[01:00:05] drink 59 Petrus, et cetera.
[01:00:08] So to have that ladder and then for there to then be an environment where not
[01:00:15] everyone can utilize that ladder, I think that that is justifyingly frustrating to
[01:00:22] groups of people.
[01:00:24] I agree with you.
[01:00:25] And I think those times are changing, but I would go a little bit deeper there.
[01:00:29] You know, not everyone is meant to go to college.
[01:00:32] It's not a route for everyone.
[01:00:34] I think the restaurant industry, you look at Europe and you look at trade-based
[01:00:41] schools and how the restaurant industry is a serious profession in Europe.
[01:00:47] And it's not just for the owners, it's for the service staff.
[01:00:51] It's for the people who work there.
[01:00:52] And I think that the restaurants can be a path for people to put themselves in a
[01:00:59] different economic bracket.
[01:01:00] And it's not just the wine people, but servers at certain houses make a
[01:01:04] ridiculous amount of money.
[01:01:06] And there's a group of people who do not have jobs, have not gone to college.
[01:01:12] What are they going to do?
[01:01:14] And how do you break that cycle and get them out of certain circumstances, allow
[01:01:18] them to have a living wage and also to help support their family and to have a
[01:01:22] place to live that has enough bedrooms or space?
[01:01:26] How do you do that?
[01:01:27] So I think the restaurant industry, not just for the wine people, I think it's a
[01:01:31] great route for some people.
[01:01:32] Absolutely.
[01:01:33] And I loved what it afforded me.
[01:01:35] And I'm not talking about my financial status at this point.
[01:01:40] It opened so many doors and opened my eyes to a different way, learning about
[01:01:45] food, learning about wine, being able to connect that way, having wine being an
[01:01:49] ingredient on my table at all times, whether I'm having a splash or depending
[01:01:54] on the night, a couple of glasses.
[01:01:56] But there's something about wine that just enriches your life.
[01:02:03] It does.
[01:02:04] You know, it's a special liqueur that great stories are told because of, or
[01:02:11] great stories were created because of.
[01:02:14] I wish people loved it and I know people do, but I even half as much as I do and
[01:02:21] that they could get the joy that I got from it and that I want to share with
[01:02:26] people.
[01:02:26] I think wine is, yeah, it's been such an important part of my life.
[01:02:38] It's a part of just my being.
[01:02:41] It's, um, I feel fortunate.
[01:02:46] I was not a credential Psalm.
[01:02:48] I taught myself and would I have the job now that I had then?
[01:02:55] I doubt it, you know, because as I said, I was trying out for the job for many
[01:03:00] years, but they knew me.
[01:03:01] They knew what I was capable of doing, the other stuff they could teach or the
[01:03:06] other stuff I could learn.
[01:03:07] Um, I did not quite sure if I can do it now, you know, and in order to be
[01:03:12] inclusive, you got to let go of some of these, these requirements and they should
[01:03:17] become nice to have, you know, it would be great if you had this, but what else can
[01:03:22] you do?
[01:03:23] And let's start off with being a good person and let's start off with being kind
[01:03:27] and not being rude and not being demeaning.
[01:03:29] You know, I've worked with people where they've spoken to customers in a way
[01:03:33] that's, that's not okay.
[01:03:35] You don't shame someone because they don't want to, nor can potentially afford this
[01:03:39] particular level of wine.
[01:03:41] And so we're going to have to have a conversation after this shift.
[01:03:45] Um, so it's, I don't know.
[01:03:48] It was an amazing period where I was given such a wide berth to learn and to create.
[01:04:01] Um, I'm not quite sure that I would be given it now.
[01:04:04] And I made my numbers, you know, it was very profitable.
[01:04:07] Um, but it'd be interesting to see if it was now that I was trying to apply for
[01:04:14] this job, would they take a chance on me?
[01:04:16] Or would they go with the credentialed person who's basically wearing the
[01:04:20] uniform saying I can do this.
[01:04:23] Um, I don't know.
[01:04:25] I want to be clear that you did this job extraordinarily well.
[01:04:30] I looked up to you.
[01:04:33] I guess my question is, it all seems so much easier back then.
[01:04:38] What happened to change that?
[01:04:39] Or was I just naive?
[01:04:42] Well, it did feel easier.
[01:04:44] It felt more natural and things were organic in the way that they happened.
[01:04:51] There was a, there was a period where, you know, wine became the
[01:04:56] thing and everyone wanted to do it.
[01:05:00] And then there's organizations where in order to do this, this job, you have
[01:05:04] to be a part of this organization.
[01:05:08] And they just made it harder for everyone and more difficult.
[01:05:11] And more people were excluded than when I did it.
[01:05:18] But I also think that it's also because more people were aware of the possibilities
[01:05:23] of what the job could be, you know, there's no one in my family who knew what a sommelier was.
[01:05:30] There's definitely no one in my family who knew that there was a person whose only
[01:05:34] job was to sell wine in a restaurant.
[01:05:37] Like that is your job.
[01:05:38] And people thought, oh, you have such an easy job.
[01:05:40] All you do is drink.
[01:05:41] I'm like, no, I'm running a part of the business.
[01:05:45] But I think that as more people started drinking wine and then more people started
[01:05:55] making money in the wine industry, it just became harder.
[01:05:59] Definitely.
[01:06:01] My thought was that if there was an even playing field test, then that should allow
[01:06:08] more diversity in an industry because anyone could take the test.
[01:06:13] But actually looking back, I don't believe that that's what happened.
[01:06:18] No, I think, you know, those tests cost a lot of money.
[01:06:22] And as we see now, you know, working with Wine Unify and Wine Unify, as you mentioned
[01:06:29] earlier, is the nonprofit that we launched in 2020 because we wanted to help diversify
[01:06:33] the industry.
[01:06:34] We wanted to help democratize the industry.
[01:06:36] And our pillars are we want to welcome, elevate and amplify voices of color in the
[01:06:41] industry.
[01:06:42] Because there are many people who didn't realize that they could be in this industry.
[01:06:46] You know, it was not something that was offered to them.
[01:06:49] The typical SOM looked very different than what I see when I look at a Zoom of our new
[01:06:56] cohorts who are taking their WCET together.
[01:07:00] So if you don't know that you belong in that space or that the space actually exists,
[01:07:05] then how do you get there?
[01:07:06] Right.
[01:07:07] And I think that for the industry to survive, especially as the Gen Zers, the
[01:07:15] percentage of people of color is about 50%.
[01:07:18] And if you look at the boomers, it's about 28%.
[01:07:20] So you've got more of these people who are drinking, hopefully.
[01:07:24] And you need to market to them, not pander to them, but you need to actually make them
[01:07:29] feel like they're a part of this.
[01:07:32] Whether they're a part of it as consumers or are they a part of it as people who work in
[01:07:38] the industry.
[01:07:39] And that didn't happen so much back then.
[01:07:42] It still was sort of the wild, wild west when I was coming up.
[01:07:47] But now I think that if this industry wants to survive, they need to make it available
[01:07:54] for everyone.
[01:07:56] It does not have to be precious.
[01:07:57] It does not have to be elitist.
[01:07:59] It doesn't always have to be about that unicorn bottle.
[01:08:03] Make people feel like they're a part of it.
[01:08:04] It doesn't always have to be about that unicorn bottle.
[01:08:09] Make people feel welcome.
[01:08:10] That's the most important thing you can do.
[01:08:13] At Wine Unify, people submit applications and those applications are vetted.
[01:08:19] And what is looked for?
[01:08:21] What separates a successful application from one that maybe you say, well, why don't you
[01:08:29] try again next year?
[01:08:30] It's really hard.
[01:08:31] But what we want is, you know, for our welcome, you don't have to be a part of the wine
[01:08:35] industry and you don't even want to have to go into the wine industry.
[01:08:39] For the upper WCET levels, you need to be in the industry and continue.
[01:08:46] And so we're looking to see whether or not is the funding the thing that you need?
[01:08:51] Is mentorship the thing for you?
[01:08:53] I mean, it's usually a spark and there are some people who are not great writers, but
[01:08:58] we're not looking for writers.
[01:09:01] We're looking for people who want to learn about wine and why.
[01:09:05] And so there's sometimes their stories are incredibly compelling, you know?
[01:09:10] It's a tough question.
[01:09:11] We ask ourselves that every single time we sit down.
[01:09:15] What am I looking for?
[01:09:17] And at different levels, I'm looking for different things.
[01:09:20] For WCET 1, it's very different from WCET 3.
[01:09:25] And what I do love is that you're right.
[01:09:27] Like there are people who have applied and they were not awarded the award, but
[01:09:33] they've come back and yeah, it worked out that time.
[01:09:37] Who is a good mentor and what do they do?
[01:09:41] I think it's really important for our mentors to see what this person needs.
[01:09:48] And there are times people say, I need some help here.
[01:09:52] Or what do you think about X, Y, and Z or being able to lean on each other?
[01:09:58] And I don't know that, but also knowing when you don't know something and being
[01:10:02] able to direct them to the person who can absolutely help them with or to find out.
[01:10:07] And scaffolding is so incredibly important as well.
[01:10:11] But what makes a great mentor?
[01:10:13] Someone who's willing to give their time.
[01:10:15] Someone who has, who is able to step back and have it be about the
[01:10:20] person that they're working with.
[01:10:22] And someone who's lived it, you know, in terms of mentees, what are road bumps?
[01:10:29] That come up a lot.
[01:10:31] What are repeatedly talked about issues that emerge?
[01:10:37] What works for one person may not necessarily work for another.
[01:10:40] Um, and there, sometimes there are people who are trying to go too fast and they
[01:10:45] are trying to do all the things.
[01:10:46] And, you know, speaking with one of our mentors recently, they were
[01:10:50] pulling them back, you know, and then there are other people who need
[01:10:55] it to be pushed a little bit more.
[01:10:57] And, you know, Annette Alvarez-Peters is one of our amazing mentors
[01:11:01] and she was the wine buyer for Costco.
[01:11:02] She worked at Costco forever.
[01:11:04] And she knows the business of wine like no one's business.
[01:11:07] And having her help negotiate a salary, modeling that for her
[01:11:13] mentee was so incredibly important.
[01:11:15] And this person feels so empowered that they can now do this on their own.
[01:11:19] You know, so they're helping in so many different ways.
[01:11:23] And our mentees also just, we check in frequently, but we also need them to have
[01:11:30] a voice and if they need something, we need to know about it, if we're missing
[01:11:34] it or if we're not aware of it, we want them to feel as comfortable as possible.
[01:11:39] It's speaking with any of us.
[01:11:41] And it's not just your own individual mentor.
[01:11:44] If you have a question or you're not quite sure about something, we want
[01:11:48] to empower them that there's no silly questions.
[01:11:52] You can learn things from other people and you can learn things from your elders.
[01:11:56] And I think that's incredibly important to not think that you know everything
[01:12:00] and that you can do it all on your own, except the help.
[01:12:05] You can listen and then decide what you want to do, but know that there
[01:12:08] are people there supporting you.
[01:12:10] Know that everyone's volunteering.
[01:12:13] You know, they're willing to give up their Sunday morning to have quote
[01:12:17] unquote tea and we don't judge what's ever in your coffee mug.
[01:12:20] Um, as we're trying to hit West coast and East coast at the same time, they're
[01:12:25] willing to give up their time because it's important to them.
[01:12:28] So listen, and just like I listened to my great grandmother in the kitchen
[01:12:33] and I remember the time I'm like, there's no way there's salt and cookies.
[01:12:37] How wrong was I?
[01:12:41] Alicia Towns Franken has had the kind of wine life that she wants others to experience.
[01:12:46] Thank you very much for being here today.
[01:12:48] Thank you so much.
[01:12:49] Love you.
[01:12:49] This is amazing.
[01:12:50] Alicia Towns Franken is the executive director of wine, unify and a
[01:12:54] co-founder of towns wine company.
[01:12:59] I'll drink to that is hosted and produced by myself.
[01:13:02] Levi Dalton.
[01:13:03] Aaron Scala has contributed original pieces.
[01:13:06] Editorial assistance has been provided by Bill Kimsey.
[01:13:10] The show music was performed and composed by Rob Moose and Thomas Bartlett
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[01:14:11] During the pandemic, I had a glass of champagne every day.
[01:14:14] And for me, I like to think of champagne as being adult popsicles.
[01:14:18] And my, my children, when I would take them to the pediatrician, she'd always
[01:14:22] hand them a popsicle at the end because you can't be sad with a popsicle.
[01:14:25] And for me, that's what champagne is.
[01:14:27] You can't be sad with bubbles in your hands.